SHORTBUS TURF WAR

[Jim Demintia]

According to Henri Watson's Twitter, he's in 8th grade. If IK needed a fucking eighth grader to tell him how to play Internet Detective, he's even more vacuous than I thought.

Act first, think later, then discover you didn't have the mental capacity to evaluate the situation in the first place. He'd be a perfect cop, really.

[a pigeon]

Petty little thing, but I noted that WYS's "writer and researcher" (according to her FA account profile) was saying during the recent Dackstrus disputes:

http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,394.0.html

That he was a "poor widdle furry pedo [sic]". She assumed he was one due to "the nature of the crime" he was convicted of and did jail time for.

http://i53.tinypic.com/vnf7z5.jpg
^
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1755602/#cid:14706632

So much for research. Immediate back-peddling followed by apology resulted.

[Pi]

In response to my twitter accusation that they were a bunch of kids:
<AishaLeHerisson> @two_pi_r Kiddies. Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that. Don't get involved if you don't know everything that happened.

Shortbus extraordinare.

[Arche Kruz]

Petty little thing, but I noted that WYS's "writer and researcher" (according to her FA account profile) was saying during the recent Dackstrus disputes:

http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,394.0.html

That he was a "poor widdle furry pedo [sic]". She assumed he was one due to "the nature of the crime" he was convicted of and did jail time for.

http://i53.tinypic.com/vnf7z5.jpg
^
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1755602/#cid:14706632

So much for research. Immediate back-peddling followed by apology resulted.

That is hardly petty, accusing people of being a pedophile is a serious allegation that can get the accused in serious trouble, even if the accusation is false.

[nrr]

That is hardly petty, accusing people of being a pedophile is a serious allegation that can get the accused in serious trouble, even if the accusation is false.

Well, just like any allegation that ultimately leads up to arraignment and, even worse, a trial by jury, once you're sitting in the defendant's chair in the courtroom, your ass is effectively grass.  It doesn't matter how many instructions you feed to a jury, the general public perception is that you as a defendant did something wrong; in effect, it really is a matter of being guilty until proven innocent.

It's even worse when it comes to allegations like this, though, because they go completely against social norms and mores, and they're often taboo at that.  Child pornography and pedophilia?  Being labeled a pederast?  You don't recover from those at all.

This is why I told IK very strongly (the gist of which is chronicled earlier in this thread with censored names; you can figure it out) to pursue only calling law enforcement and to keep his fucking mouth shut about what he does.  Now that I'm doing system administration and programming tasks for e621, I may have to eat those words.  We'll see.

I've told him that I will, for my sake and the wellness of everyone around me, kill the httpd at e621 the moment I get word that there's something even remotely questionable to that effect on the site and try to establish and maintain some sort of contact with law enforcement (with a lawyer present, oh joy) in order to turn around and establish compliance.  I don't fuck around here.

[Kindrift]

I felt guilty that my articles for CYD were sometimes halfassed and filled in missing information with assumptions, usually biased just to make the subject look bad.  It was terrible writing and basically really stupid to do.  I couldn't break that habit until college.

But I certainly never fell to that level of idiocy.  Aurora's too old for this bullshit, so "vapid gash" is really the most fitting title she has.  Researcher, my ass.

[loki]

I couldn't find any more recent thread relating to Allan and Dragoneer but apparently someone gave him the idea to start DMCAing FA for every single picture he thinks is of his character:

(thread)

Oh god, I AM SO SORRY 'NEER.

That is entirely my fault.

What I told him is that he could politely ask for the images to be pulled if they were using his characters. I stressed it so much that he had to ask politely.

He told me he sent the polite email that pretty much said "Hey this is my character being used, can you please take it down?" I told him that because it is a parody, it's a slim chance, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

When he asked me what else he could do, I said "there's nothing much you can do besides a DMCA but it really doesn't apply..." He asked what a DMCA was, I explained...

AND THEN HE RAN WITH IT. DEAR LORD. Trying to get him to listen to you once he's gotten an idea in his head is like... I don't even know. I tried explaining to him over and over that DMCAs only really work when it is YOUR ART being reposted without your permission.

It doesn't help that he has Nataya whispering in his ear about some sort of "war" against FA and Aurora. (Nataya, for whatever reason, blames Aurora for her accounts being banned.)

=\ So yeah, not a "new friend". Just someone who should have hit the block button the moment Allan sent her a message. I'm sorry for the headache.

Dragoneer enjoys DMCA requests:

Well, he's fucked shit up now for certain. If he wanted the images removed all he had to do was ask me and I'd investigate it, and remove them... LIKE I HAVE IN THE ****ING PAST.

Not mad at you, but Allan has been lying and outright attacking our host (and FA) over this issue. He's DMCAing any art that even *looks* like his character. His third DMCA was against a white wolf with a black bandanna acting stupid. Not even his own character. Not even close. But he's claiming he's got proof it's him and defamation/libel, and claiming he's going to make it a legal issue if the work isn't removed.

Now we've got an idiot with a gun firing at anything, and countering DMCAs is fucking annoying as hell. And I'm not going to take this lightly. He's fucking with the wrong systems, and is lying over a DMCA via a legal form.

Ugh. Asking you (or Chase to be exact) is exactly what I told him to do. Ask politely. Not even an hour after he supposedly sent the email, he was already raging that it had not been responded to.

"Proof" I'm supposing is the gigantic file he sent me. He seems to be under the impression that I can help him with... god knows what. He kept asking me what I thought I could do with it. Hold on, let me upload it to my site.

Edit: It's uploading now, and should be available at taasla.rydia/silly/ as evidence.rar. I'm on a very limited internet connection, so it's taking forever.

I'm assuming the evidence he has it's him is the fact that Aurora said she was going to recolor the image, and showed him the recolored image. She changed it from his character to to a white wolf with a black bandanna.

Some thing he sent to taasla is in this directory:

http://taasla.rydia.net/silly/

(whoops open directories :3)

[AshleyAshes]

Some of this is barely even 'evidence'.  Infact some of the screenshots are basically Otakuman24, the guy who tried to stand up for Allan, realizing that it's a lost cause and that Allan is too stupid to be helped.

One of these pieces of 'evidence' is just a shot of a single forum post, where the only content is an image a 'Photobucket bandwidth exceeded' image at that.

Another screenshot just showing how many guests and users are logged into FA at some point.

A screenshot of Blazger's Ning profile... Which infact is set to private and it's just a screenshot of the private message.  Then screencaps of Blazger's pedo oddesy which seems unrelated to Allan.

A meme image of 'The drama llama strike agian' with a photo of a llama.  No reference to Allan.

There's a few more 'screen shots of nothing', some photos of Dragoneer, and the rest is screen caps of conversation and journals of people dissing Allan and any parody artwork of him.  Oh and there are also screen shots of PayPal payments, I presume him 'repaying' people who donated to him.

This isn't 'evidence' this is a disorganized scrapbook of everyone hating him.  Man, and he tries to argue that he's not obsessed?  He like screen capped every mean thing anyone ever said about him.

[Pi]

Funny, Dragoneer seems fine with takedown notices so long as they're directed at the competition.

[AshleyAshes]

Funny, Dragoneer seems fine with takedown notices so long as they're directed at the competition.

He also says he's fine with DMCA take downs when they're relevent.  Allan is claiming DMCA on art OF his character that he didn't create himself or even had commissioned.  DMCA strictly is in the reaml of copyright where as, if ANYTHING, he's bitching about the realm of Trademark.  And not only would it be hard to prove 'trademark' on your do nothing fantasy character but it also has fuck all to do with the DMCA.

[Jim Demintia]

God damn, you'd think there wouldn't be people who would be willing to be so fucking stupid that Dragoneer of all people looks better by comparison, but I guess there really isn't a depth that furries aren't willing to go to.

Princess Piche should consider himself lucky that such people exist.

Also, minor point inre: DMCA--depending on the artist, some do allow you copyright of your art if it is a commission. It depends on the specific artist, but for those who don't bother to explicitly lay out those terms, the default is copyright by the creator. I'd imagine Allan thinks that if he throws baseless DMCAs (a crime in and of itself, by the way) at FurAffinity the ISP will pull the plug, as ISPs have a tendency to do at the mere whiff of a takedown notice.

[Pi]

:words:

I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing.

[Arche Kruz]

Funny, Dragoneer seems fine with takedown notices so long as they're directed at the competition.

He also says he's fine with DMCA take downs when they're relevent.  Allan is claiming DMCA on art OF his character that he didn't create himself or even had commissioned.  DMCA strictly is in the reaml of copyright where as, if ANYTHING, he's bitching about the realm of Trademark.  And not only would it be hard to prove 'trademark' on your do nothing fantasy character but it also has fuck all to do with the DMCA.

DJ_Izumi, I don't remember Pi mentioning a DMCA takedown notice specifically in the post you quoted.

[a pigeon]

On his own initiative Dragoneer has fed information to WYS, about people who use FA. He sent a note on FA to someone who posted on WYS querying whether Uncle Kage was Rogue, in order to tell them he was:

Dragoneer  sent me a PM on FA, on his own (he apparently reads this forum...he's watching you right now... :o ), and confirmed that, yes, Kage is Rogue.

http://i55.tinypic.com/bdkv0j.jpg

So he closely follows WYS and is prepared to pro-actively help them with information (Dragoneer will of course have access to IP logs etc which would link the Kagemushi and Rogue account on FA). If Pricess Piche is passing them information about Kage, who else is he giving them information about?

I don't care for Kage and I know you can find out that Kage is Rogue elsewhere, but for Dragoneer to pass information to WYS like that is low and as I said, raises the question of who else he's giving them info on. Dragoneer bears a great grudge against Kage, so that's probably specifically why he gave WYS information in this case.

I also wonder if Dragoneer broke his own terms of service by giving out Kage's other aliases like that, since the FA TOS says:

We will never use, share or distribute personally identifiable information (birth date, e-mail address, ISP/IP or other aliases) except when such actions are necessary to:

* to comply with law enforcement;
* to protect or defend our legal rights, property or interests;
* to investigate reports of illegal activities, fraud or situations involving potential risk or endangerment to the physical safety of our users.

Kage has 2 accounts on FA: kagemushi and Rogue. So by telling WYS that the two were the same person, he gave out information about an FA user's aliases and not for a reason sanctioned by the TOS.

[gnpg]

Is the Kagemushi thread on still on WYS? Glad you got a screengrab of that bit, anyway.

[Pi]

On his own initiative Dragoneer has fed information to WYS
(...)
I also wonder if Dragoneer broke his own terms of service by giving out Kage's other aliases like that, since the FA TOS says:

C'mon now. We all know that those rules aren't really what governs the site. The law of FA is whatever the moderators say/do, because they're the moderators. The TOS/AUP/ASP is just a smokescreen.

[nrr]

On his own initiative Dragoneer has fed information to WYS, about people who use FA. He sent a note on FA to someone who posted on WYS querying whether Uncle Kage was Rogue, in order to tell them he was:

Dragoneer  sent me a PM on FA, on his own (he apparently reads this forum...he's watching you right now... ), and confirmed that, yes, Kage is Rogue.

http://i55.tinypic.com/bdkv0j.jpg

So he closely follows WYS and is prepared to pro-actively help them with information (Dragoneer will of course have access to IP logs etc which would link the Kagemushi and Rogue account on FA). If Pricess Piche is passing them information about Kage, who else is he giving them information about?

To answer your last question: So far, I've seen nothing else on the WYS message board to this effect.  Right now, it's an isolated incident, and with the exposure here, it may very well be swept under the rug.

I don't care for Kage and I know you can find out that Kage is Rogue elsewhere, but for Dragoneer to pass information to WYS like that is low and as I said, raises the question of who else he's giving them info on. Dragoneer bears a great grudge against Kage, so that's probably specifically why he gave WYS information in this case.

I'd have to dig up that particular post in order to establish context, but I don't recall seeing malice from Dragoneer this time around.  The thread itself was about Kage, and Dragoneer saw fit to chime in with details that, in light of some of his responsibilities as part of FA's management team, he probably shouldn't have.

I also wonder if Dragoneer broke his own terms of service by giving out Kage's other aliases like that, since the FA TOS says:

We will never use, share or distribute personally identifiable information (birth date, e-mail address, ISP/IP or other aliases) except when such actions are necessary to:

* to comply with law enforcement;
* to protect or defend our legal rights, property or interests;
* to investigate reports of illegal activities, fraud or situations involving potential risk or endangerment to the physical safety of our users.

Kage has 2 accounts on FA: kagemushi and Rogue. So by telling WYS that the two were the same person, he gave out information about an FA user's aliases and not for a reason sanctioned by the TOS.

Don't make the assumption that releasing identifying details "to protect or defend our legal rights, property or interests" does not apply here.  There is a remote chance that the vague language (and the language of this thing is incredibly vague) can be exploited by Dragoneer in order to justify his actions to this end.

That said, I'm curious as to whether or not agreeing to a Terms of Service agreement on a site is a binding contract between both parties.  It typically is in, e.g., the case of signing Terms and Conditions of Service and Acceptable Use Policy agreements in order to establish Internet access, but I'm not sure about simply registering an account on a free-access Web site.  I'd imagine it is, given the clauses in some documents I've seen that involve remedial action in the event of a breach of contract...

If it is a binding contract between both parties, and Kage feels in particular that his rights under this agreement have been infringed upon, Kage could reasonably bring suit against Ferrox Art, LLC, and its management for this.  Kage has a very nice job doing very cool things for an incredibly awesome employer who supports his off-hours endeavors, so it also isn't entirely unreasonable to think that he's got the resources to pull this off.

[Jim Demintia]

My guess is that he got two steps ahead of his brain and it didn't occur to him that sending a PM to this person would result in that person blabbing it to the entire forum.

Oh, and I kinda doubt that Kage is going to do something as overt as legal action, because he doesn't exactly want everyone to know he's a furry pervert just like the ones he constantly downplays in interviews.

[LordNagetiere]

Maybe I missed something, but where exactly did it say he did anything as intricate as pull IP logs? It's just kind of known. I may not like Dragoneer much more than the rest of the dregs around here, but he may not have been acting in official FA capacity to find out or redistribute this information. I mean, hell you go back far enough and Rogue comissions/fanart would read 'character © S. Conway'. It's not like he was asked if two specific accounts were the same person so much as if two characters who have been around for decades are the same person. If someone asked an admin the same of 'Dragoneer' and 'Preyfar' on a forum would you really be making this kind of stink over it and bringing up forum rules?

Besides, nothing will change, Greenreaper has a stranglehold on keeping characters separate on wikifur as long as you're part of the 'in' crowd. Be a troll and he'll list it all, unless you're not significant and can get blankpaged on request.

[a pigeon]

It's not like he was asked if two specific accounts were the same person

Well, no one asked Dragoneer: he came forward to contact Silver Seren on his own initiative.  He sent the PM on FA and so theoretically has to abide by the TOS, and possibly in this case he broke the bit about not divulging "personally identifiable information". However, as nrr said, the language of the TOS is so vague that theres ample wriggling space based on the minutiae of phrasing: whether or not he confirmed that 2 characters were played by the same person vs. specifically addressing the FA accounts & for the specific reason he did it. And as pi related the rules can be ignored anyway.

You can find out elsewhere that Kage is Rogue, so Dragoneer didn't have to specifically involve himself. I'm sure WYS would have found out by themselves, so that raises the question of why he told them.  Dragoneer doesn't like Kage, for reasons possibly dating back to him and Giza havin' a dispute at anthrocon and Kage backing Giza. Kage doesn't seem to like people going around saying he is rogue. On the wikifur page for rogue, looking at the history, people have added the fact that he is Kage and it's been removed, reason given that Rogue's player doesn't want to be identified on the article. Perhaps Dragoneer told Silver Seren because it's a petty little annoyance for Kage when other people say he's Rogue.

Regards IP addresses, I just mentioned that as an admin/site owner, Dragoneer has access to those. If you look at any one account in the admin control panel, any account which shared the same IP address appears listed with it. He'd be able to see that Kage/Rogue's accounts are linked by IP, if he needed any extra confirmation. If he specifically gave that information to Silver Soren, I don't know and I'd hazard that he wasn't so stupid. Mentioning IP addresses was just an off-hand thing which probably wasn't necessary or could have been phrased better.

Anyhow, I've typed more than enough now about this I think.