Author Topic: FA's got 99 problems  (Read 10253 times)

Freehaven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 12:21:54 pm »
And -- big surprise -- Monday morning has come and gone, with no FA to speak of.

Yes, THAT Raven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2008, 08:06:07 am »
And -- big surprise -- Monday morning has come and gone, with no FA to speak of.

Didn't you hear? The next deadline is Tuesday, right after Yak takes a nap.

It's not too bad. Tuesday's not that far off, in fact it's O WAIT-

SDAC

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2008, 08:53:32 pm »
It's back, for some values of back. (thanks Pi)

I'm starting a deathpool. Who wants in?

Freehaven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2008, 09:27:59 pm »
I bet five Internets that it goes back down by the end of the week, and three Internets that they'll be asking for bandwidth donations by the end of the month.

ProvincialTwit

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2008, 11:15:52 pm »
Aren't they already begging for bandwidth donations on a constant basis anyway?

Vuna

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2008, 01:28:40 am »
It sure is sluggish.

Also after all the money they got (and the little that they spent) they better not be asking for donations for a while.

Freehaven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2008, 02:39:09 am »
And now that the site's semi-up-and-running, we can see that that whole month of downtime was WELL worth it.  Now, Dragoneer had promised several code fixes prior to the site running back up.

No, they didn't fix the search feature.
No, they didn't fix the filters.
No, they didn't even fix the issue with deleting private messages permanently.

With a full month's worth of downtime, apparently all they did was "tweak" the watch system -- which managed to make it horrible compared to pre-crash FA.  (In addition, comment counts and several other numerical functions aren't working as they should.)

Bra-motherfucking-vo, Fagoneer.  Way to let your coding team completely underwhelm everyone's expectations.  ::)

Pi

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2008, 09:52:14 am »
In addition, comment counts and several other numerical functions aren't working as they should.)

Not like anyone cares, but the reason comment counts never seem to work right is because MySQL is the Playskool bicycle of databases, and doesn't always maintain accurate counts when using the "COUNT()" sql operator, for "efficiency" reasons.
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Kindrift

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2008, 10:11:35 pm »
FA is online but dragging.  It's been refusing connections and throwing 503 errors since the relaunch, 24 hours and it hasn't settled yet.  For educational purposes let's see what that $18K might have been better spent on, for example Amazon Web Services.  This hosting is apparently used by Microsoft, Linden Labs, and most importantly for our comparison, Furry Art Pile.

The basic technical stuff, first.  AWS S3 charges per gig on drive space used, per gig of transfer in and out, and per thousands of requests.  Transfer out is slightly more expensive than transfer in, upload requests are slightly more expensive than download requests.  There are no other charges.  Amazon provides a handy little calculator to estimate monthly charges, so we'll use this.  Now we have to find some information to plug in -- we'll use the FA Forums, their WikiFur article, and a bit from the interview with all the gay banners.  First, drive space needed:

Quote from: Eevee
Database size: This dump was something like 18~19GB, stored as SQL and uncompressed.
File system size: yak guesses 500GB.

We'll put in an order for 1TB -- $150/month for each terabyte used.  It's automatically stored over a vague number of redundant drives.  We could order another TB for backup, but FA doesn't have any sort of backup right now, so we'll forget that.  Next is data transfer, according to WikiFur it's 80GB/day, 2400GB/month, split between transfer-in and transfer-out.  It's heavily biased toward transfer-out, the more expensive option.  We'll guess 2000GB/month out.  Next are the PUT/LIST requests, generated whenever a user uploads some file.  According to the interview that's 2500/day, or 75K/month.  Other requests include GET requests, and WikiFur claims they serve 10 million of those a day: "The site transfers a daily average of nearly 80 GB of data and well over 10,000,000 individual files."  So 300 million other requests per month.  The calculator now gives us a total of $830.75 per month of hosting.  This includes everything: heavily redundant data storage, money back if Amazon provides less than 99.99% uptime, professional server administration.  No bottlenecks as FA is currently experiencing.

Compare to the current FA hosting fees.  For the bandwidth:

Quote from: Yak
But you are both missing out on the fact that supporting the colocation, power and bandwidth this website uses costs money, every month. And not just money, but nearly a thousand dollars a month. Yes, 1000$/mo.

And for the rackmount space:

Quote from: Dragoneer
Server costs, currently, are starting at $400 a month... and will only rise as the site improves

$1400/month, and we haven't even considered the price of their non-redundant hardware purchases.  For that price, if anything goes bad -- one stick of RAM, one power supply, two hard drives -- the entire site comes down for two weeks while parts are procured and someone at the colo installs them.  If the system crashes or goes down in a power failure it takes about 48 hours for someone to flip the switch back on.  These are woes FA has already had so they're more than speculation.

FAP is currently spending about $200/month on its S3 hosting.  (Since the prices are linear we can estimate they're using about 25% of the resources that FA is, just for trivia.)  Should FAP ever explode in popularity and rise to equal FA's demand, their monthly costs would then rise to about what we just calculated, with no extra hardware expenditures.  That's about $600 less per month than FA spends, with much more robust hosting.  Amazon isn't even the cheapest solution available -- ServerBeach will offer 5 servers and 10TB/month for $850, that's four times as much transfer.
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

ProvincialTwit

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2008, 10:27:19 pm »
Here are the problems with that as I see it:

1: Furries are idiots.  Above all else there's this one, and we all know this is true as it's pretty much the point of this site.  They don't do things that make sense.

2: Furries are control freaks.  So what if it costs a ton more money and is dead all the time?  They're 100% in control, right?  Perhaps more importantly, they own the hardware and the storage, so if (when) they can't pay the bills, they just get the plug pulled instead of 'risking' data loss.  Even though, y'know, they've lost more data due to their own idiocy and most webhosts aren't going to just insta-trash your data as long as you're willing to work with them.  They can compromise their security at will, as FA has done in the past, whereas a professionally hosted site might make that slightly more difficult in the interests of...y'know, maintaining security for the rest of the customers.  And they don't get the ePenis points of things like posting packing slips or receipts from Newegg.  They might have to use - gasp - a control panel like Cpanel or Plesk instead of letting idiots who don't even know what 'BSD' stands for run rampant in a root shell.  And so on.

3: Furries are paranoid.  We've all seen the persecution complex that so pervades the entire fandom fetish subculture of furry.  Having a professional company hosting your data means you have to play by their rules, which often means you have to obey the law of the land concerning content.  What I'm getting at here is that the sickest of furry fetishes, cub/diaper fur, is on pretty thin ice legally.  Yes, yes, I remember all the arguing back and forth about it, but that was furries placating the demands of other furries.  A web host might not see it the same way.  I'm not saying they'd cancel/refuse the account (I mean, look at the shit on FAP), but it's one of those little nuggets of paranoia that sit in the furry brain.

But, then again, it's all just a furry porn site for furry fags to get their rocks off.  If they want to throw their cash away by sending it to idiots who will squander/embezzle it while utterly failing to deliver on promised improvements time and time again, well...that's the way it goes.

rodox_video

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2008, 07:50:49 pm »

    The verdict is clear: MURR INFINITY may be back but it's plain as day that it was not worth bringing back.
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Freehaven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2008, 09:40:13 pm »
The verdict is clear: MURR INFINITY may be back but it's plain as day that it was not worth bringing back.

Well, I would say that it wasn't worth bringing back without all the code fixes.  But considering that there was no way they were ever going to fix the code in the first place, I'm gonna have to agree with you there.

rodox_video

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2008, 12:13:33 am »

    Well, don't forget: no amount of debugging is going to change the fact that the people in charge are dickwads.
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Kindrift

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2008, 05:31:25 pm »
Bennie is a professional and fairly well known hosting provider in the furry community.  He's operated Macrophile.com for over a decade.  I'd like to archive what he said here:

Quote from: Bennie
"It just seems like nobody understands the nuances of running the LARGEST anthro-centric art/music/flash/etc site on the internet."

I'm really astonished at the hubris, sometimes. For some perspective: At it's current size, FA is a joke. You have people in this fandom who run international carrier networks with 6 9's of uptime. You have administrators and architects who are responsible for hundreds of millions of users. You're not going to impress anyone with a "FA is huge" trump card.

Yeah there's a surge coming back. But its still running slow as it did before. Were code improvements made while it was down? Is there a release plan or requirements spec for future changes.

FA just went from a "free and our hobby" site to getting the community to cough up $15k. People are going to expect a return on that.

Maybe a little professionalism and not spouting "we're the biggest, so shut up" might help too. Even if users don't understand the nuances you do, it's better to engage them and help them understand what is going on.

It seems that everyone who's been doing Preyfar's job since before Preyfar started has an opinion.  And I've never seen any of them share a positive impression.  It's not jealousy.
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

Freehaven

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2008, 07:45:26 pm »
It seems that everyone who's been doing Preyfar's job since before Preyfar started has an opinion.  And I've never seen any of them share a positive impression.  It's not jealousy.

Now to wait for the ultimate irony -- for whoever's running FurNation to speak up and say the job Preyfar's doing is horrible.

LordNagetiere

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2008, 09:06:07 pm »
IIRC M.com is run off purchased hosting as an upgrade over having a server in a basement, then a rented rack, because Bennie actually has some sense of thrift when it comes to his internetz.

Shame to see FA heading in the opposite direction.
random gay furry art is broken , when will it be fixed ?

DOUK NOUK EM

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2008, 07:54:42 pm »
FA IS BACK DOWN AGAIN!  ;D

ProvincialTwit

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2008, 08:55:36 pm »
Time to cash in on the uptime betting pool!

...Did anyone think it would last 3 full weeks?

MetropolitanDonut

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2008, 11:05:08 pm »
FA will never die.

It's practically become synonymous with the fandom.  Even if this series of mongoloids fuck it beyond repair, they'll pass it onto the next group of mongoloids who will continue the cycle, or someone will just grab the name and run off into the faggot filled night with it.

It's sort of like the Special Olympics Torch Relay, only it's okay to laugh at this.

ProvincialTwit

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Re: FA's got 99 problems
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2008, 12:05:59 am »
Ah, but that's what they once said about Yerf, and VCL.  Possibly even Furnation.  And look where those once-illustrious sites are now: Dingo took the money and ran, VCL's down to about a dozen users, and Furnation has a worse uptime record than a Geocities site.

FA itself may not last, but there will always be some schmuck with little-to-no site administration experience (and/or common sense) offering free smut hosting for the furry masses.  And the masses will migrate from one to the next, like the nomadic tribes of old.  Or maybe like some sort of horribly twisted Quantum Leap - clicking from site to site, hoping the next click will be the one that gets them off.

Or something.