Author Topic: Gay DJs on FC08  (Read 3307 times)

Kindrift

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Gay DJs on FC08
« on: January 30, 2008, 01:19:40 pm »
In which The Jaded Gay DJ goes to Further Confusion and is impressed by the faggotry of the event.  In a post on SFScene he explains a bit about the music scene:

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Three of the four years I’ve gone to FC I’ve been involved with DJing and doing a party. In the first year it was a room party with several folks I knew, and it was a blast. The next year, we got upstaged by kids down the hall playing dubstep and psytrance (for some reason furry DJs are all about hardcore and drum and bass, which should tell you a lot about them right there)

(For the record, the only thing I hate more than DnB is hardcore, both words for mindless spastic shit.)  He picked up on a vibe that I and others noticed there, the sort of urgent need to escape from reality that's always been present but made far far more obvious with this year's lack of planning and poor weather.  Convention years previous had their problems but rarely have so many been forced indoors by the rain and kept in a really pretty lackluster series of parties on Saturday night.  Never before have paramedics been called to the convention under circumstances like these.  FC08 was sort of a high point of pathetic escapism -- the author calls it amateur and adolescent, and is not off from what I saw.

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For many of the kids at FurCon, their animal self is an almost psychotic fantasy, a means of escaping who they are in reality (all the evidence of this you need can be found in the images of their characters on their con badges compared to their actual physical being), a constant performance intended to cover over the things that they find undesirable about themselves, from their physical attributes to their sexuality.

Furries are already picking this up and shouting NO IT IS NOT LIKE THIS WE AREN'T ABOUT SEX AT ALL while anyone who was there at that place and time can attest to the sexual tension and urgent need to release a sort of internal furry expression to the outside world.  It was as the author explained it.  I will not say it was a bad thing.  It was not typical of furry, of conventions, or even of FC08.  But each night of the room parties, it was there, it was depressing, and it would really go a long way toward chasing well-meaning bystanders or intelligent social furries away.  Two decent things were there that Saturday, Beetlejuice mixing drinks (however in a crowded messy undecorated room) and the very nicely themed Klingon party which closed up fairly early.  There was a poorly explained BDSM party, there was the life-wreck magnet Softpaw party, there was another undecorated and unpopulated room playing DnB, and there was a tiny sliver of a balcony where it wasn't raining.  (There was me, dancing in the rain.)  The industrial party was good but very poorly publicized, and few even knew about it.  The adult babyfur party was uncomfortable and lame, host to shit music played over laptop speakers and nerds trying to drown their social anxiety in alcohol.  There was little conversation anywhere except among old friends, the motions were slow wandering crawls from one party to another, trying to find an uncrowded room where personal relations could be made or free booze could be had.  I won't believe this is typical of furry, I know this can be improved with better planning, guidance, and weather next year.  But that's the way it was.  No amount of denying it or claiming furries aren't like that will fix the situation next year.  Refuse to fix it, and this sort of publicity will continue to appear.
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LordNagetiere

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 05:14:57 pm »
Never before have paramedics been called to the convention under circumstances like these.
0

Hardly. Some chick at one of the ACs, I want to say '06 had a bit too much of something, not an overdose as she was still conscious, but enough that she flipped out and someone called an ambulance for her.

One thing I've noticed about a convention, as opposed to a normal vacation is people tend to give themselves no warm-up/cool-down periods. They jump right into the festivities, and tend to not tie up all loose ends before doing so, then even after the con closes attend dead dogs right up until their poor ride schleps them home. It's no wonder you get millions of "OMG ACFTGH was fun, but I am so sooooo depressed now that it's over." style comments on LJ the next day. I mean, I used to be a bit down when I left Renfaire or something, but this is a bit excessive.

There's also the whole "HOLY SHEET NEED TO FUCK AN ASS, ANY ASS" type desperation that's pallapable in the air. Jesus people, save it for local meets at least.
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Pedro

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 10:54:14 pm »
It's no wonder you get millions of "OMG ACFTGH was fun, but I am so sooooo depressed now that it's over." style comments on LJ the next day.

Those are always a treat to read, although they've become a lot less common these days. I'm always amazed that furries regard these conventions as such an important social event of the year, so monumental that they actually get genuinely sad when it comes to an end. You'd think they'd make an effort to, you know, make friends locally so that they wouldn't have to make an annual pilgrimage across the country just to hang out and have a few drinks with their buddies for a few days. Or overdose on shitty drugs. Or buy pedorags. Whatever tickles your fancy.

Raverpup

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 05:19:20 pm »
Hi Kids,

as I've been getting lots of referrals from this site and others (and a proportionate amount of flames), I thought I'd provide a link to my follow-up posting, which I hope will spur some more reasoned discussion:

http://sfscene.blogspot.com/2008/01/few-further-thoughts-on-further.html


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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 11:42:15 pm »
Quote
The next year, we got upstaged by kids down the hall playing dubstep and psytrance (for some reason furry DJs are all about hardcore and drum and bass, which should tell you a lot about them right there)

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(For the record, the only thing I hate more than DnB is hardcore, both words for mindless spastic shit.)

You know, I find it kind of odd how everyone is getting so snobby about GODDAMN FUCKING TECHNO all the sudden.


Kindrift

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2008, 12:11:41 am »
Music's been my thing for a while.  Friday night dance was a lot of Epic House which is a joke to me, most of the parties were filled with the same old DnB.  The only furry musician who can stand among his peers is TekFox, from what I understand, and you can guess what he makes.  My friends are the industrial furs, who had a small unpublicized party on the sixth floor live mixing hard EBM, aggrotech, and flipping KOMPRESSOR.  I realize it's just as silly as most other electronic genres, but these artists don't take themselves seriously, and whatever you listen to is better than throwing six instruments on a sequencer and letting it loop for six minutes.  That stereotypical furry music is sort of the retarded cousin of electronica, totally serious despite its mindlessness.

Or really it's jungle for slow people.  But whatever.

Good to see you on the forum, Pup.  We have a couple DJs here.  I read through the new article and while I agree and DEFINITELY like the suggestion to take hints from BM... think you might be taking a few bad comments a bit too seriously.  Unless there's a lot of screened hate we aren't seeing in the comments it's pretty tame, just a few sour oldsters who are taking words meant for a few and interpreting them as an attack on the entire culture.  Xydexx and pals or something.  I hope convention staff at all the conventions read those tips and consider them seriously.
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

ProvincialTwit

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 12:14:57 am »
Well hey, thanks for stopping by, RP.  You'll get no flames from this corner of the 'net; it's interesting for us to see thoughts and opinions from 'outside', as it were.

Also, to quote you:
Quote
I think FC could be a great event if it had a stronger sense of what it was trying to accomplish

That pretty much describes Furry and its conventions as a whole.  Nobody has any idea what they're attempting to accomplish, or whether they're even trying to accomplish anything at all.  It goes beyond just poor convention planning/operation.  Furries, by and large (Eric Blumerich joke goes here), regardless of their age, are just stuck between 'selfish spoiled tween' and 'awkward teenage rebellion' phases that normal people have long sense grown out of by adulthood.  The 'laptop smashing' you reference in your blog is a perfect example of this - a mature person would just deal with it, an 'awkward teen' would shout profanity, and a child would throw a tantrum.  As you saw firsthand, the furry in question tended toward the latter end of the scale.

I wanted to touch on a few more points but it's late.  If you feel like sticking around, I'm sure that the major posters here would be more than happy to engage in debate and discussion with you (unlike a good portion of the commentors on your blog).

Raverpup

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 10:30:22 am »
Hey guys, thanks for some more considered response; while I have been posting everything that comes through to my blog, it's the comments I've been reading on other boards where I've been resposted that has been causing me some considerable psychic stress. Everything from being called "stupid" and "vapid" to saying that my whole problem with FC was that I didn't get laid. That's night entirely true, actually, as the bf and I did have some fun on Saturday night to ourselves, but that's something else. I'm afraid that, in trying make it clear that some of what I had to say was certainly influenced by my own experiences, many people have assumed that my experiences were, in fact, what the entirety of my critique was based upon. But, as I pointed out, I've been going to FC for four years, and what I wrote was based on those four years worth of experience as well as my experience in being involved with other sorts of events. This year I felt that I saw a lot of things going on that really disturbed me, and which, frankly, have me inclined to not go again. I perhaps did not express myself very well in my initial post, but, in my world in SF, where I'm very involved with many people who put on events at all scales of the spectrum, mostly in underground venues, "amateur" is a commonly used term to describe people who don't have the ability to handle themselves well in situations where societal constraints are relaxed. This is something that really bothered me at FC, because I saw a lot of amateur behavior; not just in terms of people drinking too much, but, in general, an almost explosive release of energy, mainly on Saturday night, that seemed driven both by sexual desperation and the sense that people were now in an environment where they could do anything they wanted. It reminded me of Saturday night at Burning Man, when I usually go back and hide in my tent to get away from the frightening energy that comes up after the burning of the Man.

My main point in the second post is to say that, in my experience, alternative communities have ways of creating themselves as communities, and Burning Man is an example of that. They have a set of values and infrastructure practices that are designed to get people to behave in certain ways, and to come together as a community. I use this only as an example that most people can easily reference - every community has its own set of regulatory mechanisms, because every community is ultimately a system that regulates itself. In my opinion, if we're going to talk about furries as a community, and as FC as a gathering of that community, then FC is an opportunity to get everyone together, and to guide their interactions with each other, in a postive way for three days. I have been involved with furries for long enough to have seen that the main mechanism for social regulation is the internet and boards like this, which leads to real difficulties, in my opinion, in the way people interact with one another in face-to-face situations. I am aware that there are many people in the fandom who have real social issues, and I frankly think that's a problem; in fact, rather than helping these people with their issues, I think the current furry social system only exacerbates those problems, and, in some ways, rewards them. People say things on internet boards, for example, that they would never say to a person's face, and then are rewarded with societal standing for saying those things. At the con I saw two guys wearing the same t-shirt; it was black with white printing, and had a cartoon wolf in front of a monitor saying "On Noez, Drama!" For me that summed up the furry social system, and that's exactly what I saw in action at FC and am now being drawn into as a result of my post; the furry social system is founded on drama, which is about creating divisions and animosities between people. I also saw this going on with the planning of FC, as I am friends with the people who were involved in organizing the social track. Drama is the result of what I would call an amateurish mind-set; it's about building things up to a point of frenzy, with a lot of shouting and posturing, and leads to situations in which the loudest, most aggressive person ultimately wins - it all becomes about dominance and submission, which, if you think about it, does make a kind of perverse sense when your social system is made up of people who are into animal role-playing.

Drama, in whatever way it is expressed - drinking too much at Con, getting into difficult sexual situations, playing the most aggressive music you can, being provocative on the Net - might make a kind of community, but it's going to be a dysfunctional community, because of the way rewards and demerits are handed out as a result. The kid smashing the laptop on Friday night was about creating drama, and my issue with the way that was handled was that, ultimately, that kid won - he created drama that then went on to affect people like me; I didn't get to do something I had been looking forward to because he created drama, and the Con organizers rewarded that by making his drama have real effect. I compared this to Paul Addis burning the Man early at Burning Man because that was an attempt to create drama that failed, because everyone just went on afterwards and did what they were going to do anyway. He was, in my opinion (which you can read more about on my blog), a narcissistic asshole who wanted the event to revolve around him, and in the end he was insignificant. That is an example of a community responding to dysfunctional behavior in a way that nullifies it, rather than rewarding it.

My whole point is that FC is now in a place where it could begin to affect people in the furry community in a real way, simply by saying that, during these three days, we are going to try and think of ourselves as a community, and we are going to try and give people who might otherwise resort to drama as their mode of social interaction a new set of actionable values that they can try to use in their social interactions. For example, I like the principle of gifting at Burning Man because I used to be a big candy raver, and I thought it was really neat how giving somebody a cheap plastic beaded bracelet could be used as the means for forming a relationship with that person, and how everybody, no matter who they are or what they look like, is worthy of being given a gift. I like the principle of "leave no trace" because it means taking responsibility for the environment you're in and not just trashing everything.

It may be, as some have said, that I'm asking FC to be something it's not, and never intended to be. But my main thought throughout the con this year was "I'm getting too old for this;" I thought that not just because of my chronological age, but because I'm no longer interested in dealing with the drama that seems to be at the center of most furry social scenes. At one point when the boyfriend was expressing some frustration with his own dealings I said "Forget it Jake, it's just FurCon." That's how I feel about the whole scene at this point; I just need to shrug it off and move on. I would like to be able to go to FC, meet some interesting people, relax, and have a good time, but I have gradually become very aware, over the course of four years, of what is moving under the surface of what I thought was so cute and fun my first time there. And if I've reached the point of saying "no more," then I'm sure others have as well. If furries want to be taken seriously as a community, then they need to become more conscious of themselves as one, and FC provides an opportunity  to put mechanisms in place that can help with that.

Raverpup

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 02:49:19 pm »
Oh, and if anyone is interested, I'd welcome replies over at my blog, http://sfscene.blogspot.com. Comments there are running generally more negative, and I'd like to see more people from within the community talking to each other about this stuff, rather than me being the middle man for it.

Kindrift

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2008, 01:40:40 am »
Blog comments currently disabled.

It's a community, that can't be argued.  It has unruly elements, that's clear.  I can't see how any are claiming that point that isn't so -- we sent two kids to the hospital, had police on-site Saturday night, and I had a simply wonderfully poor experience with fourth floor furries on E.  Now the community has problems, and as the convention exists only as a service to the community, then it's on the convention to help in whatever way they can.  It's that simple.  Where it gets confusing is how to help, and the reasons why some furries have completely strange ideas on how.  Some of the highbrow furries are arguing that the dances and all the parties should be canceled entirely -- there are a signifigant number of fans who refuse to stay out past 10PM and spend their entire convention time "socializing" with years-old friends and wobbling around the art shows or lawn-exciting panels.  Can't meet people at those loud parties, no, you can only do it staring slack-jawed at a slow progression of escapists in animal costumes or in a loud theater-style masquerade performance, so they say.  Buttered across the universe and full of fannish neckbeard, but it's their right to be that way, and they're part of the community as well.  Just ignorant to the problems and the fact that the candy ravers are part of furry too.  Those who attend the parties, who go for the parties and that peculiar (but very real) sort of socialization are a signifigant part of the convention, they buy art and draw more friends.  We're all part of this big stupid culture, and either we relax and accept that or we drive schisms deeper and jump on each and every excuse to hate the other.  Convention staff, at every convention, needs to work on this.
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

GreenReaper

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2008, 01:53:43 pm »
On the contrary, dances should be continued - they get people away from the parties, for a time at least.

Since you argue that those who go to the parties are also part of the convention, you wouldn't mind if convention leaders asked you to check that people had a convention badge along with their ID when they entered a room where alcohol was being served? Oh, and by the way, those badge numbers and ID are being recorded and cross-referenced to check that people aren't sharing badges.

ProvincialTwit

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2008, 02:38:32 pm »
words words

Y'see?  This is what you have to work with in furry: Pulling out words and sentences onesy-twosey and completely obliterating any context whatsoever, then building up a straw man so massive...well, I suppose we could make another Burning Man reference about it. ;)

I'd really like to comment further on your post, RP, but I haven't had a chance to fully read through it.  Being one of the more adamantly anti-furry voices here, my response probably won't be nearly as nice as Kindrift's.

As a general warning, in case you decide to debate the issue on one of the many other furry-related boards, I offer this:  To paraphrase an old quote from somewhere: Those critical of the fandom will be held to a higher standard than those not critical of it.  Remember, logic and reason don't apply to furry counterarguments, but god help you if you so much as make one wrong assumption.

Kindrift

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2008, 04:10:58 pm »
If you want to check badges along with IDs, sure, why not.  I don't see how this has anything to do with the problem or its solution.  Why do you mention it?
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

GreenReaper

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2008, 07:21:10 pm »
Quote from: Kindrift
I don't see how this has anything to do with the problem or its solution.  Why do you mention it?

I've noticed a fair number of people without badges at previous conventions. I've also noticed a (smaller) number of people without badges who had had a little too much to drink at these conventions.

I wonder if people are not just turning up to go to the parties. This could be a problem, because without a badge they can't do anything else at the con, and are so likely to spend most or all of their time in party space. From what little I know of partygoers, proximity to alcohol correlates positively with consumption of said alcohol.

If they had to get a badge to attend the open parties where drinks were being served, it might mean they chose to (say) spend some time at the dance rather than having a little too much to drink upstairs. After all, they paid for it, might as well use it. They could also drop into Artists' Alley to get a badge, go into the con suite to grab a bite, volunteer to help out for a while to get a t-shirt, etc. None of this is going to happen if they haven't registered.

This would not stop people stopping by to have a drink or two with their friends in the privacy of their hotel room, but it would make it harder for those people who hear furry cons are really wild, and go cruising around looking for open parties where they can score free booze. I'm not normally one to turn people away, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage that.

Sono_hito

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 07:26:44 pm »
Furry is teh suck you silly furvert

how about the assumption that theres a bunch of people attempting to have aimless fun that generaly have social issues to begin with and yet are attempting to attend a large social event. Its bound to have a few hiccups. Just enjoy the aftermath stories.
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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2008, 12:45:31 am »
how about the assumption that theres a bunch of people attempting to have aimless fun that generaly have social issues to begin with and yet are attempting to attend a large social event. Its bound to have a few hiccups. Just enjoy the aftermath stories.

Aw, look.  The silly little furry took me completely out of context and lost his posting privileges.  Isn't that cute?

LordNagetiere

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2008, 08:11:29 pm »
I wonder if people are not just turning up to go to the parties. This could be a problem, because without a badge they can't do anything else at the con, and are so likely to spend most or all of their time in party space.

Interesting idea, might work at FC, which has said party floor (other cons... might be really hard to enforce), but I think most who come for ass and booze exclusivley tend to also not stick around. It's assumptions on assumptions to try and waggle them into the 'good' crowd from the boozing crowd. Even then, keeping only those over 21 soused doesn't prevent juvenile behavior, because as stated many times, even the most aged furries are mental/emotionally perma-17.

This is all just attacking the symptoms anyway, the underlying problem is furries have no sense whatsoever, in any degree, of moderation. Without this, there's only performance of damage control over the attitudes Mr. Pup laid out very eloquently.
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Kindrift

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 10:33:15 am »
Quote from: Solei
What a worthless emo bitchfest /that/ is.

He's complaining about FC (and for that matter, furry cons in general) because they don't have fun police, and restrictions. That's the whole fucking point of a furry convention!

I laughed, I really did.  Just read that and figure out what Solei thinks conventions are about.
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

GreenReaper

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Re: Gay DJs on FC08
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 09:18:08 pm »
Brings to mind the phrase "the whippings will continue until morale improves".