Author Topic: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention  (Read 3566 times)

Conan

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Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« on: October 28, 2012, 09:29:21 pm »
Furfright wrapped up this evening, and in it's wake we're left with a internet petition focusing on removing the Dorsai Irregulars as the convention's security team.

For those who don't know, the Dorsai Irregulars are a closed group of people who bill themselves as event security. The group has existed since the early 1970's when they began working security at Sci-Fi conventions. Their goal was to provide "experienced fans who could provide security, crowd control, guest escort and other services to conventions, and with knowledge of the norms and customs of fandom, could, in theory, provide these services without the hostility and conflict caused by a clash of cultures between the mundane world and the fannish." The've never really broken out of sci-fi conventions, even today they provide a handful of conventions with their services, most notably for us FurFright, Anthrocon, and Midwest FurFest.

Anyone who's been involved with furry long enough has probably heard several horror stories over the years involving the Dorsai, from members generally being assholes to power tripping nerds with a superiority complex to crossing the line and denying disabled people access to publicly accessible elevators because fursuiters were using them. The group that says they're not "overbearing Stormtroopers" appears to be anything but. While professional security guards are trained to be professional and calm, there's an overwhelming barrage of reports of Dorsai members being rude, forceful, screaming, yelling, and even pushing attendees  following every furry convention they staff.

Which brings us back to the present. A avalanche of negative reports involving the Dorsai have popped up following FurFright. From Dragoneer being threatened with arrest for standing near a door, to Dorsai attempting to act as hotel security (with one reportedly calling himself the "Hotel Manager", which happens a lot apparently, and others attempting to control access into the hotel itself), to physically shoving a photographer, to neglecting to act during one of the most important things a security guard can encounter: a fire alarm going off.

Quote from: SilverAutomatic
But finally, the thing that really, really irritated me? After all that we had the hotel Fire Alarm go off at 3AM. It was at this time I got to witness just how unprepared the Dorsai were. They had no idea what they were doing, how to do an evacuation, or even how to control a crowd. It was actually embarrassing to watch. The regional manager for the hotel’s security service arrived and agreed that watching them was embarrassing to do.

It's important to note here that the Dorsai cannot legally operate as a security service in Connecticut without having licenses. Connecticut state statutes require security services (which the Dorsai fulfill the definition of) and, from what I understand, the individual guards themselves, to be licensed. I highly doubt, at the very least, all the Dorsai are licensed.

It's also worth noting that the Dorsai aren't paid for their services, they're just given all-expenses-paid trips to the convention, according to their website.
Quote
Our "Usual" deal is that all the expenses to get our crew to, from and through your convention are covered. (i.e. memberships, gas money - maybe food, rooms etc.)

It will be interesting to see what happens, as not only are people calling on FurFright to remove the Dorsai, but on Anthrocon as well. The history of the Dorsai starting out at sci-fi cons would lead one to believe they'd have good connections amongst the "old guard" that run Anthrocon. I know Kage has spoken highly of these hired goons in the past, and no doubt will defend them in cases like these.

genericfurry

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 10:50:23 am »
One of the last times I went to Anthrocon was in 2007. We had a party in my room and we had to throw a couple people out because they were belligerent and wayyyy too drunk. One them fell down in the hallway and was unresponsive/foaming from the mouth. I called the front office, the office sent the dorsai up....for whatever reason. The dorsai cunts just stood there stammering, doing nothing at all for a solid 20 minutes. I called the front office again and they sent hotel security, who eventually called in paramedics.

This whole event ended up lasting close to 2 hours before paramedics showed up. During that time, the dorsai did nothing. They didn't even come within 10 feet of the individuals and said nothing but stutters.

Ive heard some bullshit about how "fun" they are to "drink" with if they "like" you. But I cant imagine them being anything other than embarrassing to be around. They bring nothing to the table. Their presence is unwelcome by most convention attendees. Most conventions hire volunteer attendees to work security, which are universally more effective than the dorsai ever were.

Conan

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 12:30:36 am »
One of the con directors has pulled the "But look at the good stuff we've done" card on Reddit (Twice!) while generally doing the thing that most furries have trouble with: addressing the situation at hand in a professional manner. Things go down hill rapidly, with him starting to whine that he's oly on reddit personally (despite the initial greeting of "Hey I'm a director at FurFright").


Conan

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 10:20:26 am »
Yet another twist!

Kage has apparently used Anthrocon registration data to contact Dragoneer and Sciggles, telling them to stop telling their story.

Edit: This is all very reminiscent of this incident.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 02:41:09 pm by Conan »

ThisIsAnOutrage

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 12:24:22 pm »
I can't speak to anything that took place at FurFright since I wasn't there, but for what it's worth Midwest FurFest does not use the Dorsai for security. MFF security has always been handled by MFF volunteer staff.

pmart

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 06:34:27 pm »
I can't speak to anything that took place at FurFright since I wasn't there, but for what it's worth Midwest FurFest does not use the Dorsai for security. MFF security has always been handled by MFF volunteer staff.

Most likely Conan is thinking of Furry Connection North.

Conan

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 12:02:13 am »
Here's a shocker (ok not really).

This here is the Pennsylvania Private Detective Act of 1953 ("To regulate the business of private detectives, investigators and watch, guard, or patrol agencies, and the licensing thereof in each county; providing penalties."). Sure enough (Bear with me here, this thing is long. Emphasis added for tl;dr):

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No person, partnership, association, or corporation, shall engage in the business of private detective, or the business of investigator, or the business of watch, guard or patrol agency, for the purpose of furnishing guards or patrolmen or other persons to protect persons or property, or to prevent the theft or the unlawful taking of goods, wares and merchandise, or to prevent the misappropriation or concealment of goods, wares, merchandise, money, bonds, stocks, documents, and other articles of value, for hire or reward, or advertise his or their business to be that of detective, or of a detective agency, or investigator, or watch, guard or patrol agency, notwithstanding the name or title used in describing such agency, or notwithstanding the fact that other functions and services may also be performed for fee, hire or reward, without having first obtained a license so to do as hereinafter provided.

The application process is described here. There was an attempt at unionizing security guards in Pittsburgh in 2011 but I can't tell if it went anywhere. That would have certainly put an end to the nerd goons at Anthrocon.

So again, tl;dr, if they're calling themselves "security" and receiving something for doing security work, they should be licensed.



RickyBobbyMew

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 12:06:24 pm »
I don't understand how someone can power trip being on con security.

They do, though -- this is how emotionally balanced these people are.

I'd question the motives of anyone who is trying real hard to work security at a con. Some people are just weird and want to be in a position of authority. Not that convention rent-a-cop is a very lofty title but again, some people are fucked.

genericfurry

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2012, 12:18:30 am »
Kage sent out an email to all convention chairs that Dragoneer is merely on a smear campaign against the Dorsai and requesting that Dragoneer be banned from all conventions on that fact alone.


Yes. He thinks he has that level of control.

RickyBobbyMew

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2012, 12:48:35 am »
Aaahahaha...  really?

Oh, wow. Furries really know how to control that drama.

Instead of doing what they SHOULD do and play it off like it's nothing they do like, the opposite.

*grabs some popcorn* can't wait to see how this pans out...

ColonThree

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2012, 12:55:19 pm »
I don't really know anything about cons, so I don't fully understand what the issues are here. If the Dorsai are as terrible as they appear, why are some people so intent on defending them instead of just saying, "Okay fine, we'll use an alternative"? I assume other cons cope without them just fine. They're just 'security'. What's the big deal? Are they a lot cheaper? Do the cons or their organisers get something out of it? Are they friends with the organisers?
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RickyBobbyMew

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2012, 01:14:39 pm »
They are volunteer but it's furries so the answer is probably cronyism.

Lavi

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 03:58:14 pm »
Kage sent out an email to all convention chairs that Dragoneer is merely on a smear campaign against the Dorsai and requesting that Dragoneer be banned from all conventions on that fact alone.


Yes. He thinks he has that level of control.

Well, since most members of the furry community revere him and his "God"-status, I wouldn't be surprised if he does end up barred from a few conventions. Though I bet people would miss the joy of in-person drama.

On the other hand, I'm, oh, so curious as to why Conway won't just address the issues. Sure, Dragoneer is being a queen and going on the "OMG, whoa is me! Look at the injustice! I'm a big member of the community blah blah blah" campaign for himself, but other people did bring up very real and valid points about the flaws and legal issues with Dorsai "security".
So, again, why doesn't Kage be an adult and say that, yes, there are issues with the Dorsai and then take care of the people who are responsible? I get the eerie feeling that he's trying to make furry into a Disneyland thing... ie., "Nothing is wrong and everything is perfect and everyone is happy!!!!"
I never understood why he insists on not admitting issues and mistakes.

ISleepNow

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 08:12:08 pm »
Kage sent out an email to all convention chairs that Dragoneer is merely on a smear campaign against the Dorsai and requesting that Dragoneer be banned from all conventions on that fact alone.


Yes. He thinks he has that level of control.

Well, since most members of the furry community revere him and his "God"-status, I wouldn't be surprised if he does end up barred from a few conventions. Though I bet people would miss the joy of in-person drama.

On the other hand, I'm, oh, so curious as to why Conway won't just address the issues. Sure, Dragoneer is being a queen and going on the "OMG, whoa is me! Look at the injustice! I'm a big member of the community blah blah blah" campaign for himself, but other people did bring up very real and valid points about the flaws and legal issues with Dorsai "security".
So, again, why doesn't Kage be an adult and say that, yes, there are issues with the Dorsai and then take care of the people who are responsible? I get the eerie feeling that he's trying to make furry into a Disneyland thing... ie., "Nothing is wrong and everything is perfect and everyone is happy!!!!"
I never understood why he insists on not admitting issues and mistakes.

maybe spite keeps getting in the way
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Conan

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 09:22:27 pm »
Are they a lot cheaper? Do the cons or their organisers get something out of it? Are they friends with the organisers?

They only cost the convention whatever it costs to fly them to Pittsburgh and put them up in a hotel for a few days.

Friends with organizers? One of the organizers IS a Dorsai. There's no doubt some connection between the Dorsai of the ancient past and the "old guard" in charge of AC, as I mentioned before.

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Re: Security Scandal: Trouble at the Furry Convention
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 04:11:52 am »
Furfright now responds:

Quote
Improvements & Feedback:
After a con people often post accounts in their personal blogs, and occasionally someone will say they didn't have a good experience. Because blogs are sometimes overdramatized and contain misinformation, and because they're scattered all over the internet and don't reach the convention staff, they're not an effective tool for addressing real problems. We want to make your con better, and in order for us to do that you need to contact us directly! Unfortunately no one has contacted the convention since last year's con so we can gather information and make improvements. We reply to and save all con-related emails, and have for the past 10 years, so all correspondence is documented in order for us to gather facts, compile feedback, and fix things. So please, if you were at the convention and have ideas on how we can improve, CONTACT THE CONVENTION DIRECTLY through the furfright.org website (be sure to include your legal name, mailing address, and an accurate, detailed account of any issues or improvements). Issues/improvements are handled by a board of directors, not just one or two people, so it's vital you contact the convention directly so we can gather information and act. Just go to the "Contact Us" link and drop us an email. It's so easy!

Over the past 10 years FurFright has prided itself on putting our attendees first. Whether it's attendees or staff, we deal with people as individuals and work to improve your convention experience and make sure everyone attending is treated with the utmost kindness and respect. But talk is cheap. The proof is always in giving you the best con we can year after year.
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Belicbear, who I think is convention chair, had this to say:

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When an individual bashes a person or group of people, or intentionally creates drama, or is too weak and cowardly to do the right thing, or feels they're above rules and the law, or constantly paints themselves as the "victim", you should stop and take a hard look at their credibility before you take their word as truth. Perhaps this person has a long documented history of lying, spouting endless excuses and empty promises to cover their appalling behavior, a gross lack of moral fiber, and that their actions are driven by ego, weakness, selfishness, petty vindictiveness, or worse. If a person exhibits this behavior over and over again, for years and years, that should tell you something. People who are constantly at the heart of drama are there for a reason. They create it. Instead of instantly buying into all their hysteria and insincere damage control, like mindless sheep, get up off your ass, get the facts, and use the brain you were supposedly born with to make up your own mind. We all have a choice in what we tolerate and accept.
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