"alliots spring gathering"

[Simba]

Why not enlighten us and make this thread, y'know, less "rumormill"?

I suppose I wanted to see what kind of reception I'd get:  Whether it would be at least marginally rational and inquisitive, or the standard Internet-goon "I want something to hate on for the sole purpose of hating on it, regardless of the new information I've been presented with" mentality.  You know, the sort of, "I heard about some granule of truth that was twisted by the rumormill into something completely outrageous, already have a preconceived notion about everything, and the actual, detailed truth can't possibly be reality" mindset.  So far, I've received the latter until your reply and I didn't feel that it was really worth my time trying to convince people, with that kind of steadfast bullheadedness, that they're completely off-base.

I also didn't want to come in here and be all like, "I'M AN AUTHORITY ON THIS SUBJECT LISTEN TO ME", 'cause that almost never gets a fair reception either.  As Jim Demintia pointed out, though, yes, I've been part of planning and execution for the Elliott parties since the beginning.

In addition, I thought that I had heard just about every ridiculous rumor that has been floating around regarding the events at this point, but "life-wrecking shit" was intriguing, and I was curious to know what that one was all about. 

I don't know that I've *ever* been somewhere where people were so damn horny and desperate they pretty much started fucking out in the open

Sex happens.  I'm willing to place a substantial bet that someone in the world is having sex RIGHT NOW, while you're reading this.  OH NO!  QUICK!  DO SOMETHING!

If you're located at any given venue, as a growing number of people congregate there, the more likely it is that sex will happen within your proximity and the greater the chances you'll have of stumbling upon it.  This concept is not limited to furry, either.  Even with that statistical reality, I don't think any of us was prepared for it to happen in the way that I described in my quoted Livejournal comment either.  Whether you believe it or not, what I put into that post is what happened.  "The tent" (it's more like a portable carport with walls) was an attempt at mitigating what some of the guests and co-hosts pointed out as a problem.  It wasn't decked out with a whole bunch of specified attention, neon lights, advertisements in the invitations, or whatever, as something that is a perk for attending, either.  The things that are included in the invitations are what are expected by the hosts to be at the parties.  Some of the guests brought their own sex with them.

Personally, I haven't witnessed any sex happening at any of the events.  The closest thing to it, that I did witness, was one instance where an individual was in the garage (the arcade was set up there at the time), said something about his endowments, someone else challenged it, and he was ready to just drop trou, right then and there, to prove his manliness or whatever (yes, he started to unzip).  I happened to be passing by right as that part of the conversation was going on, said, "Ohh, no you don't".  Then I told him that it was rather inappropriate and I'm sure that there were people in there who didn't need to see it and didn't want to see it.  For those who did want to see it, they could go see it somewhere else.

The party's co-hosts are pretty busy just making sure that food is put out on time, things are set up where they're supposed to be, there's adequate lighting in outdoor areas, the tiki torches get lit to keep the bugs away, or what have you.  It's nearly impossible for them to be everywhere, all the time, trying to police every random, inappropriate behavior.  If too much security staff is added, guests start complaining about that, too, because they feel like it's uncomfortable, unwelcoming, and overbearing.  I'm sure there's a balance somewhere, but whatever...  It's a party.  Random shit happens.  A lot of times, it happens and the co-hosts don't even find out about it until a guest complains well after the party is over.  Stumbling upon random acts of a sexual nature was one such "after the fact" thing, and "the tent" was the co-hosts' reaction to it.

The party's reputation got more flak from the tent's mere existence than it did for the random acts of sex out in the open, so it has since been taken down and its contents (the couch and mattress mentioned in my LJ comment) have been set ablaze and reduced to ashes.  It wasn't the most environmentally friendly way of dealing with it, but to be perfectly frank and based on the theater of the mind about what may have happened in there, nobody wanted to touch it.

Yes, this is the same cheerleader who registered on VegasFurs some time ago.

I've never been in contact with or registered on VegasFurs, so I'm not sure what is even being talked about, here.

Yes, modest furries not wanting to take credit for something.  That sounds like a totally realistic (...)

Well, whether your sarcasm indicates that you believe or disbelieve that it can happen, I was there when it was being discussed, and the reasons given in my first post were the actual reasons for the fictional character host.

o person whose name is from a Disney movie yet probably has COPYWRITE TO ME all over commissioned pics of his murrsona.

I don't claim to be very creative.  I obviously didn't bother spending what little creativity I have on my nickname.  I don't have any "commissioned pics of a murrsona", either, 'cause I haven't been imaginative enough to fantasize about something that I'm not.  It's just a name - like Bob, Jim, Mike, and Dan are names.  Do I like The Lion King?  Yes, I joined the masses who contributed to the $783M it grossed in the theaters.

[Jim Demintia]

You know, it occurs to me there's a lot of talk of libel and lawyers from multiple independent locations (this thread, the FA submission), and that makes me wonder if legal threats haven't been bandied about before in response to this rumor/allegation. Which would be interesting, to say the least.

And an observation from talking to others about this: seems like a lot of those involved with ELE or those who know people involved with it may know more than they want to know, but choose to ignore it for one reason or another. Or rather: they don't care so much about the substance or veracity of what's being said as much as they care that negative things are being said.

Why their priorities are that way is anyone's guess, but it does seem to happen among furries with some regularity.

[ProvincialTwit]

Why their priorities are that way is anyone's guess, but it does seem to happen among furries with some regularity.

Sounds like the standard furry knee-jerk reaction to any negativity whatsoever.  As you noted, the content doesn't matter; merely the existence of some form of negativity or portrayal of furries/'the fandom' in a negative light.  Negativity brings with it the danger of questioning their private little furry reality, which leads to reactions much like that of Christian fundamentalists.  Ironic, that.

[Simba]

that makes me wonder if legal threats haven't been bandied about before in response to this rumor/allegation.

To my knowledge, neither threats of legal action nor actual legal action have been used in response to negative comments or rumors about the events.

I agree that it seems to be the typical furry response, so maybe it gets brought up because it's what's expected.

they don't care so much about the substance or veracity of what's being said as much as they care that negative things are being said.

Quite the contrary...  Myself and the other co-hosts are usually interested in the substance or veracity of what's being said simply because we find the content to be amusing.  The rumors and negative comments are often ridiculously bizarre, so we typically just marvel and laugh at the creativity of some of them.  It's sort of fun to retroactively dissect them and try to figure out how they originated.  I often wonder if the people starting the rumors actually start them out as far removed from reality as they are by the time they get back to us or if they are just an embodiment of the game of telephone.  My other theory is that they pick subjects by having manatees pull idea balls out of an idea tank and drop them into a rumor combine.

[Dima]

I sure am glad you provided a link explaining the reference you made in that last bit, otherwise I wouldn't have known that it was both pointless AND a reference to a popular television show. Golly!

[Simba]

I sure am glad you provided a link explaining the reference you made in that last bit

I'm glad my propensity to be thorough was able to provide you with some of the desired detailed clarity!      

I wouldn't have known that it was both pointless AND a reference to a popular television show.

Unfortunately, it failed along the way because it did, indeed, have a point, so I'll provide even more detail to explain what point you missed:  It was a reference made in order to provide a humorous parallel, illustrating not only with words, but with animation and audio, depicting how seemingly random and bewildering the content of the rumors are by the time we hear them.  In addition, it was a reference not only to one popular television series, but TWO popular television series due to internal recursion!  =]  =]

Jeepers!

[Jim Demintia]

So getting back on topic, you've more or less admitted you don't really know some of the stuff that goes on at Elliott's, so I guess it isn't beyond the pale that you might not know about things going on inre: the rumors discussed in this thread. Especially since furries have that awesome tendency to block out any indication that their idols just might not have the upstanding moral character that they claim they do.

And especially given your VegasFurs appearance (if that wasn't you, then who the hell was it?) where, according to Kindrift's post, you seemed to think you could get away with not knowing and/or telling anyone the details behind your organization.

(and getting back off topic, didn't AlohaWolf try exactly the same thing with VegasFurs a while back? And got pretty much the same response? I seem to remember reading a thread to that effect a few years ago.)

[Simba]

So getting back on topic, you've more or less admitted you don't really know some of the stuff that goes on at Elliott's

I can't claim to know 100% of everything that happens everywhere because I can't be everywhere all the time.  If someone finds the trick to that kind of useful omnipresence, I hope they share it with the rest of the world.  I can only describe anything that I've witnessed directly.  Everything else is hearsay, and I try not to participate in that game.  Anything that I see happen between the start time of a party until we tell everyone that "they don't have to go home, but they can't stay here", I usually have no problem describing.

I also can describe some of what I've been involved with in terms of preparations for the events.  For example, I helped clear land and construct the sport court (I had never operated a front end loader / backhoe prior to that - pretty neat experience, really).  I assisted in the electrical and network conduit installation for the pavilion.  I've helped set up the various outdoor seating areas and shade (carport tents) around the property.  I've gone on shopping trips to help get food and supplies.  I've done repairs on the DDR machine.  I've hammered stakes in the ground for playing horseshoes.  I've swept and mopped floors...  Stuff like that.  You know...  party preparation stuff.  It's really not all that exciting, though.

And especially given your VegasFurs appearance (if that wasn't you, then who the hell was it?)

Because I have trouble staying within character and theme, I'm not usually responsible for outside communications and creation of promotional materials in any capacity other than sometimes proofreading them for technical or grammatical errors.  It was likely the minions (co-hosts) who are creative in that regard, but since I've never seen and wasn't involved in the particular communication that Kindrift referenced, I'm not sure which minions produced it.

you seemed to think you could get away with not knowing and/or telling anyone the details behind your organization.

Details are specified when their disclosure is deemed necessary.  If a detail breaks character or theme and is considered to be unimportant to completing the task at hand, it is either crafted into the theme or avoided entirely.  I recognize that some people are not fans of that approach and they're free to remain uninvolved.

If I came up to you and said, "Hey, I'm throwing a BBQ this Saturday and I think you'd have fun there.  You should come," and your response was, "Oh.  Well, I'll need your middle name, your social security number, any addresses you've had for the past 10 years, and the name you would give to your first born child," I'd probably say, "Uh..  on second thought, maybe you shouldn't come."  In this example, I didn't think that the requested bits of information were necessary for you to attend my BBQ, so I chose not to give them to you.  You're free to disagree with that approach and insist that I give them to you the same as I'm free to tell you to sod off and walk away.

[Jim Demintia]

Details are specified when their disclosure is deemed necessary. If a detail breaks character or theme and is considered to be unimportant to completing the task at hand, it is either crafted into the theme or avoided entirely.  I recognize that some people are not fans of that approach and they're free to remain uninvolved.

See, this is exactly the kind of shit that makes people wonder.

It sounds like no one really knows anything almost by design, frankly. And congratulations on making the whole fucking thing sound like a cult.

[Simba]

congratulations on making the whole fucking thing sound like a cult.

Almost every organization, even publicly traded businesses, harbor proprietary information for whatever reason that they may come up with.  I suppose, by your mindset, every business or individual who harbors proprietary information is automatically a cult.  Brilliant!

[Jim Demintia]

Almost every organization, even publicly traded businesses, harbor proprietary information for whatever reason that they may come up with.  I suppose, by your mindset, every business or individual who harbors proprietary information is automatically a cult.  Brilliant!

Yeah, not what I said. The fact that you're out there shilling for ELE and don't seem to know the first fucking thing about it is what's creepy. And usually, when a business is looking to take on business partners, they're a little more open than you might be with a friend who is being invited to a BBQ. What are you, a business looking to expand into a new market or just some guy who has parties? Cause you can't have it both ways.

At least not in the real world.

[Simba]

The fact that you're out there shilling for ELE and don't seem to know the first fucking thing about it is what's creepy.

I think the fundamental flaw in thinking here is that you're fishing for information that doesn't exist.  You seem to be expressing some sort of underlying idea that there's something deeper or more meaningful going on, when there isn't.  It's a group of people.  They like to throw parties, 'cause they think parties are fun.  They like to share their parties with furries (a bizarre concept, but it's true).  There really isn't anything else to it.  I don't know what other information to give you because I'm pretty sure that there isn't any.

What are you, a business looking to expand into a new market or just some guy who has parties? Cause you can't have it both ways.

We're just a group of people who have parties.

[a pigeon]

Simba, who bankrolls ELE?

Hiring mechanical diggers et al doesn't come cheap, so there must be a fair amount of cash being splashed about by someone.

[loki]

The one dude who bankrolls the event made some serious money with some magic company or what not. I don't know the details and don't really care that much. Aside from the whole sex tent thing, it's pretty much a free ride for a bunch of people to have fun. Why he doesn't donate to charity instead of to a bunch of furries is beyond me but hell, it ain't my money.

[Jim Demintia]

Why he doesn't donate to charity instead of to a bunch of furries is beyond me but hell, it ain't my money.

Because doing the latter buys you at least the apathy of the majority of the fandom when it comes to stuff like this, and it also buys you a subset of those people who will mindlessly defend you and even attack anyone who would suggest you're anything less than a saint.

He sure as hell isn't the only one who "donates" to the fandom and gets that in return.

[Simba]

Simba, who bankrolls ELE?

The official, themed answer to that question can be found on the web site in the Frequently Asked Questions section.  If you want something different than that, I refer back to a few posts ago mentioning proprietary information where disclosure is not deemed necessary for the enjoyment of the events.  I'm not going to come up in here and ask you, "what company do you work for and what is your salary" because I respect your privacy and don't think that it's really any of my business.  I also refer back to my first post, mentioning benefactor modesty.

Why he doesn't donate to charity instead of to a bunch of furries (...)

Who's to say that other charities don't receive donations from the same benefactor(s)?

Because doing the latter buys you at least the apathy of the majority of the fandom when it comes to stuff like this, it also buys you a subset of those people who will mindlessly defend you and even attack anyone who would suggest you're anything less than a saint.

This comment illustrates, succinctly, a couple, out of a whole plethora, of reasons for keeping benefactor information undisclosed - so they don't end up with the described type of attention or the bitterness that is markedly prevalent in Jim's comment(s).  If the majority of the fandom doesn't know who it is, they don't have anyone to direct their apathy, "mindless defense", and Jim's style of bitterness toward.

[Jim Demintia]

Except no one buys the modesty excuse, so we are left to wonder why this person insists on remaining in the shadows.

[ProvincialTwit]

Wow this thread is really fun an...

Wait no, this thread is annoying and horrible and I'm getting tired of it.  Jim, while I appreciate your admirable string of ICEBURNs, it's pretty obvious you two are just going in circles at this point and if you want to continue doing so you're more than welcome to take it to PMs. If either of you have anything of worth to contribute to the topic at hand, be my guest.