MyFursona.com: administration full of shit, or lying, or both.

[Pi]

<Pi> so question for someone with root on myfursona.com
<&KovuTheHusky> Yeah?
<Pi> Why's a box that's never touched your site suddenly getting 403 errors on its main page?
<&KovuTheHusky> What? o_O
<Pi> just that.
<Pi> apparently an entire /24

(in privmsg)
<Pi> x.x.x.0/24 ring any bells?
<KovuTheHusky> Um... not really no. I have no idea what you're even talking about.
<Pi> you don't recognize CIDR notation, or what?
<KovuTheHusky> No... I'm a programmer, not a network engineer...
<KovuTheHusky> Xcxeon would be the guy you want to talk to. Note that at the time of this message, xcXeon was idle for nearly 48 hours
<Pi> so you have no idea what an IP address and subnet mask are
<Pi> you must be one hell of a programmer, then.
<Pi> what are you doing with a root password if you don't know how to specify a network?
<KovuTheHusky> I don't have root. I wasn't paying full attention to IRC...
<KovuTheHusky> Sorry about that.
----
<Pi> do you, or do you not, have the ability to remove [my IP space] from your ACLs?
<Pi> since it's come down to either you're a moron or you're lying
<KovuTheHusky> No, I do not.
<KovuTheHusky> Only servage.net does.
<KovuTheHusky> And if you knew how to WHOIS...
<KovuTheHusky> And looked into it...
<KovuTheHusky> You wouldn't need to ask...
<Pi> uh-huh, because your upstream has nothing better to do than drop incoming traffic from machines that haven't touched your host.

(back on the main chan)
<Pi> I just want to know why you're throwing out random /24 bans.
<Tori_Belliachi> They're not random, they're IPs that have attacked the site.
<Pi> uh
<Pi> no, they haven't
<&KovuTheHusky> Pi, honestly... I was away... Tori did the bans. I wouldn't have banned a /24 right off the bat but whatever... And I doubt Tori pulled it out of his ass.
<&KovuTheHusky> If you've never logged in or registered an account from there I have no clue what's going on.
<Pi> KovuTheHusky: I think there's only one part of that that's correct
<Pi> Tori_Belliachi: so, where'd you see (xxx) logging in from
<Tori_Belliachi> The IP didn't even end in this weird "/24" anyway... it was banned from the IP
<Tori_Belliachi> I got no idea, all I get is the IP address and a system to ban IP addresses
<Pi> Tori_Belliachi: which wouldn't explain why something else in its /24 would be banned as well
<Pi> you're a horrible fucking liar
<Pi> and if you think I'd believe that you're also an idiot.
<Pi> so
<&KovuTheHusky> Tori: /24 = The range you banned x.x.x.0-255
<Tori_Belliachi> I don't even know what "/24" does, so I can hardly be lying about it.
----
<Pi> verix: kovu dosen't know what cidr means.
<Pi> either that or he learned all of its intracacies in an hour
<&KovuTheHusky> Pi & Verix: Yes I do...
<Pi> KovuTheHusky: you didn't a fucking hour ago.
<&KovuTheHusky> Pi: I meant... that SOME IP in there belongs to you
-----
<Pi> you can't be running a website without being given access to something resembling the logs
<Pi> Tori_Belliachi: so what user accessed your site from that /24?
<&KovuTheHusky> Pi: Apparently you can.
<Pi> and it's really awesome in that as soon as I admit to being root on that /24 range you all of a sudden know what /24 means.
-----
<&KovuTheHusky> At least I can walk away from this going... "Aah... So x.x.x.0/24 = x.x.x.0-255..."
<Pi> KovuTheHusky: which you should have learned sometime about 6.99994 years ago.
<Pi> at least if you've been paying a webhost company for 7 years.
----

That's right, furries, this is who's running www.myfursona.com, and this is who YOU are trusting with your personal information: he's either a liar, an incompetent, or an incompetent liar.

[Fate]

[11:59am] <Fate> Sooooo, quick question.
[11:59am] <Fate> Why was Pi banned for no readily apparent reason?
[11:59am] <Fate> I mean, not just banned from the site, but banned from IRC. It seems kind of crazyass to me.
[12:00pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Why, we have a speedy response unit with us.
[12:00pm] <Fate> YES. SPEEDY RESPONSE, FOR INTERNET: SERIOUS CONDITION RED.
[12:01pm] <Fate> No, I just want to know. So that I don't get banned for no reason from a site I've never heard of before this.
[12:01pm] <Tori_Belliachi> In the three days that he has been active in this channel, two of those days he has caused conflict between users and personally insulted numerous people.
[12:02pm] <Fate> Right. Because the Internet is a place where everyone should be nice to everyone else all the time. Forever.
[12:02pm] <Tori_Belliachi> The world would be a better place if it were.
[12:02pm] <Fate> He asked why he was banned from a site that he had never before touched, and was banned for it.
[12:03pm] <Tori_Belliachi> He claims to have never touched, yet magically has various of his IP addresses in our access logs and even told us himself that he was banned from the site via various networks.
[12:06pm] <Tori_Belliachi> [09:27] Pi: it didn't acces myf until 1.5 hours after my other machines were banned
[12:07pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Thus implying that his other machines were banned from the site. The only IPs that were banned that night were those found to be attacking.
[12:07pm] <Fate> Well, you banned a whole CIDR class.
[12:07pm] <Tori_Belliachi> To prevent a simple case of having a dynamic IP.
[12:07pm] <Fate> There is not a rolleyes big enough for that statement.
[12:08pm] <Fate> Most ISPs own more than one IP block
[12:08pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Part of my job is to defend the site from attacks. That is what I did. End of story.
[12:08pm] <Fate> You don't just reboot your modem and go from, say, 204.8.204.67 to 204.8.204.68.
[12:09pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Curiously the computers in my house can do that
[12:09pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Apart from this one anyway, cause I set it up as static
[12:09pm] <Fate> Go Go Gadget: Multiple IPs on a Residential Network (useless).
[12:10pm] <Fate> Unless you're talking DHCP IPs, which aren't a) routable, b) released if you're some kind of fool who does something crazyass to prevent DHCP Release.
[12:11pm] <Fate> I guess my general point is you banned an entire chunk of New Mexico.
[12:13pm] <Fate> Look out, SANS Internet Storm Center. Your comeuppance has arrived, in the form of the typically furry Furry Internet Storm Center: Defending Your Yiffspace Fursona From Interthreats. It's run with typical pride in poor administrative technique and halfassery.
[12:14pm] <Fate> ( seriously isc handlers you should watch out or they'll write a long, whining diatribe on your wikifur article )
[12:15pm] <Tori_Belliachi> He was removed for insulting users. He even admitted towards the end that we may as well ban him. Said ban has been enacted. Period.
[12:16pm] <Fate> Hold on, please. Checking logs.
[12:17pm] <Fate> So Pi's got root access to the /24 block. Doesn't mean he's the only user, or even the only person with root.
[12:18pm] <Tori_Belliachi> I know he's not the only user. There's about three others
[12:18pm] <Fate> I mean, after all. Most large systems have, gasp, more than one administrator. That's how you *properly* run something big enough to eat 255 IPs.
[12:19pm] <Fate> Note the subtle criticism that I'm making unsubtle after remembering that I'm talking with typical furries.
[12:20pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Actually according to Encyclopedia Dramatica I'm not a typical furry. I'm more articulate and make good points.
[12:20pm] <XenWork> Tori_Belliachi, pro-tip: one person doing something wrong in one instance doesn't justify you claiming they did so in another. while he is an asshole, i can tell you that he doesn't even come near enough to caring about a site that is in almost every aspect an abortion, to actually attack it on a system level
[12:20pm] <Fate> So which user on that set of IPs instanced the "attack", and why didn't you discuss the situation with the administration of the network before simply blacklisting the whole set?
[12:21pm] <Fate> Tori_Belliachi, further ProTip: You have not made one good point in this entire conversation.
[12:22pm] <Tori_Belliachi> That's the issue, no definite IP address was properly recorded, only a range. It was blacklisted immediately because the attack coming from it was DDoS based, the longer it takes to react the worse the problem comes.
[12:22pm] <Fate> ...
[12:22pm] <XenWork> so what software package did that?
[12:22pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Don't ask me, I wasn't the one running it.
[12:22pm] <Fate> What this sounds like so far to me is Typical Furry Administration. To wit: "ARF ARF THERE IS SOMEONE ATTACKING THE NETWORK." "BLOO BLOCK THE OFFENDING RANGE OF IP ADDRESSES, SINCE WE CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO CHECK THE ACTUAL LOGS." "ARF ARF I AM NOW GOING TO GO FUCK A DOG."
[12:23pm] <XenWork> also
[12:23pm] <Tori_Belliachi> You are a wanker you know.
[12:23pm] <XenWork> if the system can identify a ddos, why doesn't it simply ban the single ips? D:
[12:23pm] <Tori_Belliachi> That was another issue, our current host doesn't even allow access to logs.
[12:23pm] <XenWork> Fate, if i understand this right, there ARE no logs
[12:23pm] <Fate> Oh right.
[12:23pm] <Tori_Belliachi> The system doesn't identify them, I do.
[12:23pm] <Fate> Because every server doesn't log anything.
[12:24pm] <Fate> Ever.
[12:24pm] <Fate> At all.
[12:24pm] <XenWork> Fate, i can tell you for example that fchan has no access logs
[12:24pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Ours doesn't. We even have an email from Servage support, they do not give access to logs for shared hosting accounts.
[12:24pm] <XenWork> ok, wait
[12:24pm] <XenWork> so
[12:24pm] <Fate> So, let me get this straight.
[12:24pm] <XenWork> some system goes
[12:24pm] <Fate> You're paying someone to watch your servers for you.
[12:25pm] <XenWork> "someone in range x is ddosing"
[12:25pm] <XenWork> and you immediately ban the whole range?
[12:25pm] <Fate> But they aren't watching them closely enough to bother notifying you of what's going on with them.
[12:25pm] <Fate> I'd change hosting immediately.
[12:25pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Why bother waiting for the host to respond when I can do it quicker?
[12:25pm] <Fate> Because you suck at responding.
[12:25pm] <XenWork> tori
[12:25pm] <Fate> Sorry.
[12:25pm] <XenWork> let me put it like this
[12:26pm] <XenWork> i yell at mods on fchan almost weekly because someone banned a range
[12:26pm] <Fate> Banning a /24 is irresponsible and, yes, stupid.
[12:26pm] <XenWork> that immediately triggers roughly 10-20 emails about why people are banned
[12:26pm] <XenWork> we have about 20k visitors per day
[12:26pm] <Fate> It causes offense where none is necessary, and contributes to your community's reputation for high-fucking-larious drama.
[12:27pm] <XenWork> feel free to calculate how many such mails you'll be getting once the site is actually of a decent size
[12:27pm] <Fate> What this problem required is a scalpel.
[12:27pm] <Fate> But FUCK THAT, GET THE HAMMER.
[12:27pm] <Tori_Belliachi> I don't see why he's even complaining about that. The IP range has since been unblocked.
[12:27pm] <Fate> And you have the balls to call *me* a wanker.
[12:27pm] <Tori_Belliachi> It was many, many hours ago
[12:27pm] <Fate> Doesn't fucking matter.
[12:27pm] <Fate> You shouldn't have banned the entire range in the first place.
[12:28pm] <XenWork> because you're still saying that it's the right thing to do
[12:28pm] <Fate> This is "proper network administration 101". Maybe you should go to school or something for this shit.
[12:28pm] <XenWork> he's allergic to people in IT doing stupid stuff
[12:28pm] <Fate> Instead of just bashing your flippers against a keyboard and shouting "I IS A SECURIDAD AMDINISTROOTOR"
[12:28pm] <XenWork> i'm not saying that with any pretense, that's a simple flat fact
[12:28pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Well sorry, but our regular network admin was away, I was the only administrator available and it was an emergency situation.
[12:29pm] <Fate> "Emergency situation" my ass.
[12:30pm] <Fate> Emergencies are when your site is GOING DOWN HARD because some asshat has seized root and is actively wiping your directory structure before scrambling admin passwords.
[12:30pm] <Tori_Belliachi> I'll pummel your ass several hundred times a minute then, see how you like that.
Yeah, so that's professional.
[12:30pm] <Fate> DoS attacks are routine and should be handled at your hosting level.
[12:30pm] <Fate> So I guess the lesson here is:
[12:30pm] <XenWork> ^- this
[12:30pm] <Fate> a) Don't be a retard.
[12:30pm] <Fate> b) Don't be a cheapass.
[12:31pm] <Tori_Belliachi> Changing host has been on the to-do list for a few months. We're current trial-testing other hosts as we speak

[Pi]

[12:18pm] <Tori_Belliachi> I know he's not the only user. There's about three others

(implied context was that they were from my /24)

Utter garbage. But what should we expect from a group with a history of being full of shit?

Someone on their forums trying to diagnose an "I didn't get your activation email" problem by asking what browser they're using.

Someone once told me there's no such thing as bad publicity, but I think they're wrong.

[Fate]

[12:30pm] <Tori_Belliachi> I'll pummel your ass several hundred times a minute then, see how you like that.

Just to reiterate for any furries, especially GreenRaper, who are showing up here from the I SAW A DOG TODAY article.

Internet Tough Guyism is not how you run a site, especially one that may be turning into a business some day. You threaten your users in a real-world context and they are going to stop using your services just because you're a giant, man-shaped anus.

Jesus fuck, people. I sell murdersticks and I don't threaten my customers. The fuck is wrong with you?

[GreenReaper]

Internet Tough Guyism is not how you run a site, especially one that may be turning into a business some day. You threaten your users in a real-world context and they are going to stop using your services just because you're a giant, man-shaped anus.

I don't get it. He didn't want you to use the site, anyway. So now, you don't want to use the site either. Everybody wins.

Most administrators I know are reasonable to a point, but if you make a point of arguing with them about how the run their site, and imply that they're having sex with dogs while doing so, you're not likely to be very welcome. You're not a paying customer, and he doesn't owe you anything.

[Pi]

I don't get it. He didn't want you to use the site, anyway. So now, you don't want to use the site either. Everybody wins.

The stunning lack of cohesive reasoning in that statement boggles the mind.

[Fate]

Your essential problem, GreenRaper, is that you seem to have difficulty keeping on topic.

1) What? Where is it said that he didn't want me to use the site?
2) If you're the Shining Example of a Reasonable Administrator, this world's gone tits-up.

Edit: Also, since he is running a site that:
a) is centered around "I'm proud of being a furry and wish to meet other furries,"
b) is apparently being run with no expectation of profit, ever, and therefore
c) is a "fun thing" to "help furries out",
the natural conclusion seems to be that he has some form of hideous psychosexual deformity.

[GreenReaper]

1) What? Where is it said that he didn't want me to use the site?

People don't tend to offer ass-pummeling to people they want using their services, the same way that Comcast doesn't advertise free ass-raping as part of its triple-play. Either you feel he was truly offering this to you (in which case you have the "right" to be offended by it and should treat it as a reason to leave), or you don't (in which case why are you taking it so seriously when you just called him a dockfucker?)

2) If you're the Shining Example of a Reasonable Administrator, this world's gone tits-up.

Nobody's perfect. But I find it hard to take seriously anyone who makes a big deal out of a /24 - 255 IP addresses - being blocked. Unless we're talking about AOL's proxy being one of those (and perhaps even then), it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, especially on a temporary basis when the regular administrators are not around.

The best way to prove them wrong is not to have an argument with them in an IRC channel, but to run a better site. Anything else is just words.

[Fate]

IF YOU CAN'T DO BETTER YOU SHOULDN'T COMPLAIN

You're a child, sir.

[GreenReaper]

IF YOU CAN'T DRAW BETTER YOU SHOULDN'T COMPLAIN

Actually, I wouldn't complain even then. I'd suggest "don't complain, just draw better" as the most effective approach. How many of the sites in the fandom came about because someone saw one site failing and thought they could do a better job?

[Fate]

How many of the sites in the fandom came about because someone saw one site failing and thought they could do a better job?

FAP, and we see what a tremendous success it's been. Also, you might want to install some sort of logical fallacy check. Like a spellcheck or a grammar check, but built especially for when you, GreenRaper, are a retard.



p.s. rumor has it that you like to touch little boys c/d

[Pi]

Nobody's perfect. But I find it hard to take seriously anyone who makes a big deal out of a /24 - 255 IP addresses - being blocked. Unless we're talking about AOL's proxy being one of those (and perhaps even then), it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, especially on a temporary basis when the regular administrators are not around.

I'm pissed that a /24 that NEVER CONTACTED THEIR SITE finds itself suddenly banned.

[GreenReaper]

FAP, and we see what a tremendous success it's been.

FAP's a good site with a silly name. If it's trying to compete with FA, it needs to make it easier to upload works created by others. I suggest coding a way to upload such images but not display them, and then have the site request the explicit permission that they feel is required. Otherwise, it's not viral enough to take the market from an established site.

p.s. rumor has it that you like to touch little boys c/d

I didn't quite hear you . . . but if this is about that soldering iron thing, the kid was totally coming on to me.

Pi, you caused trouble for an administrator of a site, and everything you control was blocked to try to stop you causing trouble. If I knew you owned a particular block, and you were making troublesome edits on WikiFur from another IP, I'd quite probably have done the same thing. If you don't want that to happen in the future, don't do things that get you blocked from websites.

[Kindrift]

Pi was being annoying in their IRC room.  Not breaking rules, just criticizing the admins.  Pi had never been to the site (so your "troublesome edits" analogy fails). During a simple and embarassing attack, someone banned a large block of addresses including Pi.  Pi confronted the staff with the ban and they very blatantly lied that the attack came from Pi's address.  To fix that analogy, this would be like a user who has never edited or visited WikiFur getting banned from WikiFur for annoying #wikifur.  I hope that's simple enough for your ADHD to process.

[Fate]

Kindrift, requesting GreenRaper ban because he is doing nothing but causing trouble with no real input on anythohwait

[Pi]

Pi was being annoying in their IRC room.  Not breaking rules, just criticizing the admins.  Pi had never been to the site (so your "troublesome edits" analogy fails). During a simple and embarassing attack, someone banned a large block of addresses including Pi.  Pi confronted the staff with the ban and they very blatantly lied that the attack came from Pi's address.  To fix that analogy, this would be like a user who has never edited or visited WikiFur getting banned from WikiFur for annoying #wikifur.  I hope that's simple enough for your ADHD to process.

It's worse than that, Kindri. I wasn't even on their IRC from the netblock in question. I have no idea how in hell they learned about that IP space. And since they don't have logs (convenient, that) they can't tell me anything about the supposed attacks.