Vivisector
Public Discourse => Article Discussion => Topic started by: rodox_video on January 16, 2010, 02:29:17 am
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Furry artist Allison "javachickn" Reed molested her dog on camera and got off scot-free. Here's a run-down of what happened (http://www.vivisector.org/vivblog/index.php?/archives/38-THE-ONE-THAT-GOT-AWAY.html).
Also check out the old thread (http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,170.0.html).
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Well, ain't that a piece of shit we have on our hands folks. As a fur I have to regretfully agree that the majority is too asinine to pull Bestiality out into the spotlight of shame. *shrugs* I try to do my part, but policing one fur sight is all I have time to do. Hell, I wish I could do more, but I know its a fucking lost cause. Then again trying to the a beckon to any moral high-ground on the net is a lost cause.
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Since the article, I've found two minor nuggets of information about what happened:
#1 Sam was a (poorly-kept) secret for a good portion of the time she had him. We know this because I have reports of some chucklefuck at FC blurting out about how much fun it was to "play with him" and then suddenly following that remark with "oops I'm not supposed to talk about him".
Also note that there are, to my knowledge, zero surviving photos of him with Java that aren't from the Beastforum footage. (On top of that, I'm pretty sure her face is at least partially obscured in all of the pictures/movies. I'm not going to go back and dig up the stills to check.)
#2 Allison has several roommates. Like her boyfriend, they all agreed to what they called a "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy about what she did to her pets.
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Sam was given away to this (http://tiggerfox.livejournal.com/61016.html) individual (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/tibsfox). We don't know too much about him, though. Reed's boyfriend claims he isn't a zoophile, but he definitely qualifies as a co-conspirator either way.
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Rodox_video, you've messed everything up. You are making huge mistake by assuming that every zoosexual contact is a cruelty. (It's like assuming that every homosexual is a rapist.) Read sth on zoosexuality to understand what you are writing about. For me it looks like you are just another victim of the absurd judeo-christian ideology :(
I'm not saying that Allison wasn't cruel to her dogs. I don't know her.
It also seems that you don't understand what furry fandom is. It's not a fetish subculture. First of all it's not a subculture, but a counterculture. Second, people involved don't need to have any fetishes, they are simply zoosexual. Probably many of them aren't even conscious about it.
And being zoosexual (emotionally and sexually attracted to sexually mature individuals from other species) doesn't mean you have to be asexual toward humans, neither you have to act on this attraction. About 20% of humans are zoosexual.
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Oh god, please be an ironytroll...
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Wanderer, Vivisector is the kind of place where the subject of sexual attraction to real-life animals and following through on it is something that's going to be made fun of, by calling it cruel or whatever. Go up to a complete stranger, preferably in the South, and attempt explaining the difference between zoophilia and bestiality and see if anyone who isn't a zoophile actually cares. They don't. The zoophilia thing was a move by the bestiality crowd in furry fandom in the late 90s to re-brand themselves. Just as the re-naming of Creation Science to Intelligent Design was simply a ploy, the underlying motive remains the same: creating a veneer to get the Bible taught in public schools. Same with the name change from bestiality to zoophilia, the underlying motive remains the same, and creating a veneer. Justify things however you like; the board will still make fun of it.
It also seems that you don't understand what furry fandom is. It's not a fetish subculture. First of all it's not a subculture, but a counterculture.
...Wow. I don't even know where to start on this. I think you've self-rationalized your beliefs into a completely different perception of reality. Countercultures *are* subcultures by definition, a more specific form of them. So what are you countering? And why? And how do you and other participants demonstrate your opposition? Also, in the department of pulling-statistics-out-of-thin-air, I'd say that for at least 50% of furry fandom, it definitely *is* a fetish.
On second thought, just go away.
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A bunch of bullshit to try to justify zoophilia.
Are you trying to convince us, or convince yourself? Every time I see crap like that I get the sense that it's said purely out of denial - you'd sooner convince others to agree than re-evaluate your fucked up perspective.
Atheists aren't avid dog-fuckers! They think it's gross too. This isn't opposed to any ideology or belief, it's just a psychological or social disorder.
Get the fuck out of here, and leave the dog alone.
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Rodox_video, you've messed everything up. You are making huge mistake by assuming that every zoosexual contact is a cruelty.
It also seems that you don't understand what furry fandom is. It's not a fetish subculture. First of all it's not a subculture, but a counterculture.
I can only hope this is the same Wanderer who's been slouching around the C-64 scene for the past couple of decades. My tiny, simple, making-huge-mistakes-about-'zoosexual contact', not-understanding-furry-fandom mind can't handle the thought of two people using the nick Wanderer both being so incredibly stupid.
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Haha oh wow.
Sorry no, zoophilia is equal to pedophilia which is the rape of a party unable to grant consent under the law. You lose, good day sir, get the fuck off my forums.
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I can only hope this is the same Wanderer who's been slouching around the C-64 scene for the past couple of decades.
Why, what was he like there? I was bored and started digging around the Google Groups archive. If it's the same Wanderer as on Usenet, from 1996-2006 he posted over 8000 messages. I checked a bunch at random and found them devoid of any content. It was almost always a light-hearted snark in reply to when other people were complaining about something, but always couched so vaguely that you could never pin down his actual opinions about anything. Oh, and on some early posts, he called himself a Christian.
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I really doubt this is the same dude. He's probably from beastforum or EFA or something.
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LOL I'm not from beastforum, EFA or anything like that. I only have this unique capability to think on my own, instead of blindly following the crowd. And you know very well how blindly following others can be cruel (slavery, World War II to name a few).
@gnpg:
I wasn't talking about zoophilia/bestiality, but about zoosexuality (sexual orientation towards nonhuman animals). http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Zoosexuality is a good start if you don't know what am I talking about.
I won't argue about furry fandom. I might be wrong here. But there are things which sugest that furry fandom is zoosexual in nature.
@Heimdal:
That sth is gross doesn't mean that it is wrong. For example homosexual acts are also viewed as gross by many.
@ProvincialTwit:
Zoophilia has nothing to do with pedophilia. The difference is that children are not sexually mature.
To all:
Are you considering this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqjhjWdF0Ao to be cruel?
P.S. Sorry for being impolite.
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Incredible. Someone who is so utterly and completely wrong about everything, ever, that we need to invent a new term for it. Like, 'most wrongest'.
Also, I've never been a big fan of Polish jokes, but goddamn if this guy doesn't put them all in proper context. With that in mind, I think I'll just go ahead and block the entirety of Poland to prevent this sort of idiocy from befalling Viv again. Don't bother replying, folks - he won't see it. Besides, this thread has gone off-topic enough already.
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To all:
Are you considering this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqjhjWdF0Ao to be cruel?
P.S. Sorry for being impolite.
This has nothing to do with Beastialty or Zoophilia, it's a guy collecting sperm from a dog, probably for the purpose of artificial insemination. I highly doubt he is doing this for his own sexual gratification. And if he is, he needs psychological help.
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LOL I'm not from beastforum, EFA or anything like that. I only have this unique capability to think on my own, instead of blindly following the crowd. And you know very well how blindly following others can be cruel (slavery, World War II to name a few).
The fuck you aren't. You think I'm stupid? You've got the high-and-mighty tone of a rank-and-file dogfucker, and I can see it a fucking mile away. (Also: Zero to Godwin in two posts!)
See, the reason you're banned is that there's no debate here. There's no reason to go into specifics, no reason to dig into the vast body of scientific knowledge and eyewitness accounts that prove you wrong because there's no point to it. You'll just regurgitate some other bullshit Greathouse or Spink or Wheeler or whoever already wrote ten fucking years ago, and we'll just keep drifting golfcarts around a roundabout for eternity and accomplish jack fucking shit.
Honestly, I think that's doing you a favor. Beats the alternative, though.
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People don't really need to be from this forum or that to regurgitate someone else's old tired hat. Things tend to just... disseminate like that sometimes. It's actually sad that's starting to happen.
Also, as a message from the non-animal-fucking portion of humanity, thanks for syphilis.
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Also, as a message from the non-animal-fucking portion of humanity, thanks for syphilis.
That's...not actually how cross-species disease transmission works. It's just an urban legend. In the interests of keeping it brief and keeping your lunch down, lets just say there'd have to be a lot more animal-fucking going on then there really is (or has been) for a disease to successfully jump to another species that way.
It's likely that it jumped the same way AIDS did--humans eating the meat of infected animals.
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As you know, the "javachickn" livejournal (http://javachickn.livejournal.com/404619.html) was deleted and purged almost immediately after the news of what she did hit. However, some material from it was saved by an unlikely source (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/heartofthewolforganization/CGMfB):
**WOLF/MALMUTE PACK WITH PUPPIES** ON DEATH ROW!
***PLEASE REPOST ASAP!!!***
Koda" - female, just had litter, is in danger of euthanasia - FOSTER HOME NEEDED URGENTLY
Our VERY FULL local animal shelter just had to take in 8 wolf dogs from an abuse/backyard breeder case. Because the shelter is so packed full of dogs right now, and wolf & sled dog rescues are not responding to our pleas for placement, these dogs are in immediate danger of being euthanized.
They are located in McKinleyville California, which is 5 hours north of San Francisco, 3 hours west of Redding, 6 hours north west of Sacramento, etc
Note that the location that is given matches up with the address of the shelter she worked at. It's not much, but it is confirmation that she did volunteer at that particular animal shelter.
In other news, I've been poking and prodding around, and I'm beginning to formulate a theory as to why no action was ever taken against Java.
Basically, what Reed did was such a fundamental violation of the trust that the shelter put in it's volunteers that if they acknowledged what she did, it would be a major blow to it's reputation. Not only that, but since the shelter is run by the county sheriff, they would probably have had to answer some very uncomfortable questions if she was ever formally charged.
This is because of the warning signs that were missed/ignored. Five or so years previous, the Humane Society put the word out that a prospective dog owner pushing hard to get a large-breed dog a vasectomy was an obvious warning sign that he or she was trying to acquire a dog to be used for sex. And yet Reed had managed to do just this, from the inside and right under their very noses. If this became widely known, the blame would have been on them for not screening their volunteers properly. It's possible that they might have faced considerable backlash. There is even the possibility, however remote, that the entire operation could have been put in jeopardy.
This was not exactly an acceptable proposition. So they (grudgingly) decided to just let the whole thing blow over. After all, the animal in question was eventually rehomed, which is probably the best course of action they could have hoped for.
A criminal case at this point is impossible. The only actual witness was her boyfriend (he was also the camerman - if this was Washington he'd be in trouble too). We don't have much more than his first name, and he is long gone. Any computers she owned that might have had evidence on them were probably Gutmann-wiped long before the cops were called and are also long gone. Same deal for the camera.
In the two years since this all went down, we haven't really seen any sort of reversion to her old behavior. There's even a non-apology apology on her FA (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/JAVA/), carefully and cryptically worded to avoid any admission of guilt. This leaves the question of whether she really quit dogmongling cold turkey still up in the air, as we do not know the status of Dodger, her youngest dog. She made hints on Beastforum that she was planning on "using" him next.
I guess the only thing we can do is hope she's learned some self-control.
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From the Dragoneer inbox dump:
(http://clanspum.net/~pi/ppad.jpg)
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Welp, so much for that being private.
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From the Dragoneer inbox dump:
(http://clanspum.net/~pi/ppad.jpg)
The most depressing thing about the PM dump is that this is not the worst thing in it by a far cry.
But this has some pretty fucking special significance for me. Shame that this is in no way admissible as evidence.
I will not forget this.
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http://community.livejournal.com/furaffinity/213163.html?thread=3380139#t3380139
Apparently dragoneer decided that this evidence wasn't really evidence and etc etc etc other things.
What investigations by the police/government against them were on-going? Can you give me case numbers, proof, examples, anything?
Sorry, but in both of those instances A) nothing happened on FA and B) nothing happened on FA. We don't take actions unless the issues directly involve FA, or we have solid, concrete evidence to go by. I heard of some video that apparently involved Java, yet all the "evidence" I was given didn't prove a thing, and the various reports on FA, AIM and IRC were "we think these people are into xxxx in real life, let's dig into their life and find out!". Their big evidence against Mobian on FA was some comment that could easily have been taken out of context.
You can tell me "XXXX is a zoophile and into RL bestiality!" but if that comes with no proof or evidence, what the hell do you want me to do? Realistically, WHAT do you want me to do?
If you believe that when I've personally banned dozens of zoos from FA you're, no offense, an idiot.
All the punching. I want to do all the punching right now.
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Wait a second.
I'm a little surprised that no one has commented on what Dragoneer said.
"I've sort of feared that over time."
Normally I'd assume he meant the maliciousness of furries, but then...there's this...
http://www.beastforum.com/showuser-1101546.html
This may explain why it's so difficult to get animal abusers off of FA. Didn't someone say once that FA has a "Zero Tolerance" policy, but that they're required to give one warning before implementing it? Would also explain Sean's notes....and why Chase stayed on so long, or even got made an admin with the presence of dog dick in his gallery.
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Wow, this just isn't Piche's week.
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Yeah, uh, look at the join date. I'm pretty sure that's fake, a) because he's not used that Inkjammer alias in many years now, and b) because not even Sean Piche is stupid enough to join Beastforum under a known alias. If he'd done that in 2003 or earlier, then maybe it'd be believable, but the fact that it was created less than a year ago screams shenanigans to me.
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not even Sean Piche is stupid enough to join Beastforum under a known alias.
You would be suprised; in addition to the subject of this thread (http://www.vivisector.org/vivblog/index.php?/archives/4-THE-ONE-THAT-GOT-AWAY.html), me and several others have found so many that we've literally lost count. But yeah, that is definitely not him.
Exactly what he meant by the "I've sort of feared that over time." comment is something we'll probably never know, and it's likely nothing.
Also, getting animal abusers off FA is not something that should really be trusted to the FA administration; it's just not in their job description. They've just fucked it up too royally. Better for them to not intervene at all unless the abuser is disrupting the site or breaking rules; banning for off-site shit just opens too big of a can of worms. There's a reason Helldump is gone over at SA after all.
No, it's better to just monitor potentially dangerous individuals and only freeze their accounts if law enforcement becomes involved or is about to become involved.
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I have no idea who created that profile or why but someone tried posting it on his ED article along with a number of photos they claimed were him molesting a dog. I don't really care to speculate the reasons or parties behind it other than to point out that there's a long history of people trying to spread bullshit rumors about him in an attempt to undermine legitimate criticism.