Author Topic: Edited Commision uploads on SoFurry Drama Butthurt  (Read 1211 times)

an hoopoe

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Edited Commision uploads on SoFurry Drama Butthurt
« on: September 05, 2013, 04:19:45 am »
The short of it is, is that there have recently been several cases of commissioners uploading commissioned pictures which they have edited in some way on the SoFurry site (One case simply involved someone adding some text to a reference sheet). A moderator on the site ruled that it was acceptable to upload such pictures to SoFurry and that artists should make it clear to commissioners before hand if they don't want them editing their pictures. He entitled the official journal he made about this matter: Terms of Service and being butthurt.

However, as you probably know, copyright hoo-hah and people being sensitive about their stuff (sometimes even oversensitive) are part and parcel of the furry subculture and such a thing as that is guaranteed to upset members of the community which use the site and make people feel insecure about uploading stuff. Therefore, within hours the decision had been reversed and the site owner Toumal apologized.

I wonder if editing pictures has become more popular of late due to such things as a series of threads on lulz.net where edits of pictures are done (apparently to the great satisfaction of most of the people asking for edits), and the increased ease of sharing edited pictures (compared to say 10 years ago) on furry chan/image-board sites, tumblr and so forth. Indeed, I noted just today that a picture by Zaush was uploaded on FA and within a few minutes(!) someone had made a female character in it into a male one and shared it on lulz.net.

First the original butthurt journal:

https://www.sofurry.com/view/585692

Quote
Terms of Service and being butthurt

On why making rules clear is a good idea

Recently we've had a couple of reports come in from artists complaining about their works being edited and then posted on SoFurry. These pictures were commissioned and paid for, and then the commissioner (the customer) has then made some edits of their own and gone on to post the new picture.

Now, I can understand the artists in this case being annoyed, especially if they weren't asked permission. But here's where the important bit is - permission.

As an artist you can lay out the rules of the commission. This can be stuff like what kinds of content you are willing to draw, under what circumstances rejections and alterations can be made, and whether the customer can edit or repost the work and so on.

If you don't state these things, make them clear and get your customer to agree to them, then you are giving them goods that they can do with as they please. So, if they want, they can write all over it and change all the colours and repost it wherever they like - and because you didn't make it clear as part of the deal that that is not OK, there's nothing you can do about it.

Now, that doesn't mean it's cool for people to do that. It's still a dick move if someone pays you for a commission and then messes around with it and doesn't give you the credit you deserve and talk to you about the changes. But, it's also something that can be totally allowed.

So, artists, if you want to be careful with your work, how it's distributed and used and what people can or can not do to it, make sure you get your Terms of Service clear and understood. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for a fall.

The two top-rated replies to it:

Quote from: Fighterjet
Wellp.

I am no longer going to use this site and am now pulling down all of my works. I will not support a site that has such bewildering concepts of copyright law. When you pay for a commission, you're not paying for the rights to heavily modify and reuse an image- hell, technically, you don't even have the legal right to repost it.

Whether or not a TOS exists is beyond the point, especially when an online TOS can and HAS been nullified by existing legal constructs. Just as an artist cannot legally get away with denying refunds and never producing the commissioned work, a TOS cannot override existing copyright law. If a TOS is absent, standard copyright law and legalities should stand.

The fact that you guys seem to think otherwise makes me believe that my work is not safe to be posted to this site.

Good day.

Quote from: Dicefuzz
N... no... no. When creating a work for a customer, the artist retains rights to the work- that means that it cannot be edited, it can not be 'written all over', nor does it mean they have exclusive or ANY reposting rights unless directly told by the artist. I don't HAVE to say "you are not allowed to edit this work", for it to be un-editable. I have to say "you ARE ALLOWED TO EDIT THIS WORK" all caps, bold, font size 20, impact typeface, underline, doubleunderline, ITALICS- for the customer to be able to actually be allowed to make ANY edits to the piece OR pay anyone else to do so. It is ILLEGAL for them to do so under copyright law. It does not fall under fair use or parody.

Not having it in your TOS does not trump copyright law.

If you're going to run a site that allows for visual artwork to be uploaded, learn the law behind it. An artist CAN DCMA your site, as the content host, to remove the artwork- they should not have to. All they should have to do is ask, because they are the copyright holder, and you should be removing the offending image. An artist, should they care enough about an (apparently really shitty, by evidence of the two mod posts, both journal and comment) furry site, could in fact lawyer up and sue.

Personally, I hope that the artist in question posts an artist_beware post about this site, because I sure as hell do not want to EVER post artwork to this site again, considering the way you treat the artists residing.

Toumal's apology journal:

Quote from: Toumal
Our Apologies: Recent copyright issues!

Hey fellow furs, and furry artists!

As many of you heard, there has been an issue with a particular moderation decision. A user posted modified versions of commissions. Our moderator told the artist that he can't ask for the modified artwork to be taken down. Our mods called the artist "butthurt". When I woke up I saw a mushroom cloud from my window.

First off all: We fucked up. We're a team of volunteers strewn across the globe, so a good number of our team was unavailable at that time. But regardless, the end result was the same, and the harsh language from our side simply wasn't neccessary. On top of that our decision was wrong.

Of course a commissioner can usually repost a commission he paid for (unless the artist made him agree to other terms beforehand) - that's what everyone does in the fandom on all the sites out there. It's called joint copyright under US law.

of course a commissioner cannot modify finished artwork and then post the edited version up everywhere, without permission from the artist. That is simply not covered by joint copyright. It's rude.

That's the legal side of things. On top of that, SoFurry is not here for our own amusement and power trips. SoFurry is made and run FOR YOU. For artists, writers and musicians, for furries, for furry-curious people. So with everything we do, we must take into consideration the person who we're doing this for, and that person is you.

It's now early morning for some of the mod team, and even EARLIER morning for others ;) but in light of all this let me just say that we're working on this. Please accept my apologies for the messy situation and everything bad that has been said. We're looking into our staff organization as well, though needless to say we did fail as a team and the point this post is not to put all the blame on individual mods.

Once again, please accept my sincere apologies for that mess. We're not closing any threads or journals about this by the way (unless things get personally insulting, mind you) so please do feel free to discuss this. We're always open for suggestions. You can also PM me if you want, though chat is probably easier. I'll be on the SF chat later today as well.
^
https://www.sofurry.com/view/585874

A comment by someone on lulz.net about this:

Quote from: anonymous
I oddly agree with the fact that commissioners are entitled to it. Speaking as an artist, it's hardly different from game mods and music remixes.

Other art fields explicitly mention the level of use that you have when purchasing the product.
^
http://lulz.net/furi/res/2725464.html

Someone else:

Quote from: anonymous
In before Sofurry will be dead by the end of summer comments! But really, while I partially agree, staff probably shouldn't be calling artists butthurt..not a great way to get anyone new on your site after this.

Pi

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Re: Edited Commision uploads on SoFurry Drama Butthurt
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 10:58:36 am »
Rule #1 of when to stop paying attention to someone: The word 'butthurt' crosses their lips/metaphorical lips.
"we did farts.  now we do sperm.  we are cutting edge." — Theo DeRaadt

Conan

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Re: Edited Commision uploads on SoFurry Drama Butthurt
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 01:18:02 pm »
Toumal's post should win PR Post of the Year award for it's blatant pandering to artists.

I don't understand why furry artists are so fucking anal about every little thing that happens to them. I have produced a number of design projects for different groups that have gone off and modified the hell out of them, and it doesn't bother me because I got paid and it's no longer my problem. The original projects go into my portfolio and that's that.

If someone wants to take their $300 furry porn commission and draw on it then oh well.

camellia sinensis

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Re: Edited Commision uploads on SoFurry Drama Butthurt
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 06:09:35 pm »
When someone commissions an artist to draw something, the artist is being payed for the labor, not for ownership rights of the work in question. The artist retains all relevant copyright rights to the work in the eyes of the law, and that's the long and short of it. There isn't really wiggle room in this case.

You could say the artist is being "whiny" but if someone goes on to edit the work and then profit from it while the artist was willy nilly with the rights, the person everyone will blame is obvious. So I can't really fault anyone who doesn't like the idea of people modifying their work on a whim.