Author Topic: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem  (Read 4763 times)

krinndnz

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RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« on: February 20, 2016, 06:18:36 pm »
From the con's 2015 chair, a bruising postmortem assessment: http://orrery.prismaticmedia.com/2016/02/20/rainfurrest-2016-post-mortem/

Quote
[W]hat really killed RF2016 was RF2011 to RF2015. During those years we failed to deal with problem behavior as it started happening […] RainFurrest was irretrievably damaged before 2016 began, but we could not — or chose not to — see the damage.

[…]

We as a convention were entirely unwilling to hold people accountable to standards of behavior. Although we laid out policies to create a healthy and respectful space, we didn’t enforce them. We didn’t need to raise our standards in 2015; we needed to adhere to the standards we already claimed to have. More importantly, we needed to have been doing so consistently all along. Other cons have almost identical language regarding expected public dress and behavior in their codes of conduct, but they don’t seem to have the problems we did with people using the headless lounge as a petting zoo or having to summon the ambulance multiple times per con for drug overdoses. We had become a “safe” space to violate the rules, because we had a long history demonstrating that there would be no consequences.

Pretty sure RF is just dead—which, going by this report, is just as well; I'd rather have a con run by whatever generation of conrunners comes after the crew that mismanaged RF for years.

PleadingTheYiff

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 11:33:50 pm »
This is about as intense as con board drama gets without Kahuki-style insanity or straight up fraud. There's a couple of pities here. I'd have liked to seen how their participatory theme was going to go (probably not well, few people go to cons for programming, after all), and people will probably take the wrong lessons from it (I've already seen 'well look at RF' used for Dorsai-apologism).

But the real upshot of this, is that even if a tenth of it is true, then the running of RF was a goddamn mess. And that's compared to other cons, where 'goddamn mess' is kind of a norm.
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Conan

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 07:10:14 am »
You read that and have to wonder just how dense/stupid the people who were running the con all these years are.

It's really difficult to even imagine a room full of grown-ass adults sitting around doing half the things brought up in this letter. Afraid that trying to uphold standards of conduct would decrease attendance????? Really???? What the fuck is wrong with these people??????

RF got what was coming to it, and other cons should take note. Unfortunately, I have a hunch this still won't stop the "Cons are ~~safe spaces~~ to express yourself" bullshit that has been cropping up around this subject. No, cons aren't your own personal fetish display zone. Yes, one way or another there will be consequences if you break hotel property. Yes, the con has every right to enforce standards of dress and standards of conduct. Yes, you can stay home if you can't function like a normal person in public.



I.S.T.

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 06:34:22 pm »
Yeah, there's a difference between cons are safe places and the freak shows that a lot of cons turn out to be... I avoid cons like a plague partially due to this.

It's clear that the con board had no idea how to handle PR at all. When your reaction to a failure is to clam the fuck up for, what was it, six months... All that does is prove you're an idiot and/or a coward.

*sigh* Goddammit.

Question: why does this keep repeating itself amongst cons of all kinds? I've seen video game cons, comic book cons, anime/manga/japanese shit cons all do stuff like this. This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers. The rest fits the standard con bad behavior, including the sexual assault.

I've never explored the con culture that much because of all the horror stories. What leads nerdity in general to these excesses and bullshit?

graeme

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 07:21:13 am »
This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers.

Except that never happened.

And the reason this keeps happening is because people are avoiding the real problem, that the hotel was fucked over and over in damaging ways, and the board did nothing to it.

That's what kills conventions.  You break the hotel's stuff, and you don't get invited back.  You're a board who doesn't punish people for breaking the hotel's stuff, and the hotel loses faith in your ability to solve the damage issue. 

It's not the baby furs.  It never was. No matter how many bullshit rumors about crap filled diapers are spread around, it won't change what really killed Rainfurrest.

gnpg

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 08:55:46 pm »
Question: why does this keep repeating itself amongst cons of all kinds? I've seen video game cons, comic book cons, anime/manga/japanese shit cons all do stuff like this.

Well, to use just one example, from the con chair's post:

Quote
The cultural problem within RainFurrest’s leadership was summarized well in a single conversation I had with the head of convention operations one year. He said to me directly that he had no intention of revoking a single badge if he could help it, because he’d rather just tell people to go back to their rooms and sleep off whatever stupid they’d ingested. He didn’t care that he was abrogating one of his principal duties as security’s department head or that he was undermining the ability of his staff to enforce the rules. Even after explaining in detail why this was a problem, he still said that there was absolutely no need for RainFurrest to ban people to make a good convention.

In other words: Geek Social Fallacies #1 and #2. (Link.)

I.S.T.

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 01:22:37 am »
This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers.

Except that never happened.

And the reason this keeps happening is because people are avoiding the real problem, that the hotel was fucked over and over in damaging ways, and the board did nothing to it.

That's what kills conventions.  You break the hotel's stuff, and you don't get invited back.  You're a board who doesn't punish people for breaking the hotel's stuff, and the hotel loses faith in your ability to solve the damage issue. 

It's not the baby furs.  It never was. No matter how many bullshit rumors about crap filled diapers are spread around, it won't change what really killed Rainfurrest.

I meant that the baby furs were the only difference between this con that fucked itself into oblivion and many others that have done so in the past.

Pi

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 02:33:12 pm »
This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers.

Except that never happened.

And the reason this keeps happening is because people are avoiding the real problem, that the hotel was fucked over and over in damaging ways, and the board did nothing to it.

That's what kills conventions.  You break the hotel's stuff, and you don't get invited back.  You're a board who doesn't punish people for breaking the hotel's stuff, and the hotel loses faith in your ability to solve the damage issue. 

It's not the baby furs.  It never was. No matter how many bullshit rumors about crap filled diapers are spread around, it won't change what really killed Rainfurrest.

I meant that the baby furs were the only difference between this con that fucked itself into oblivion and many others that have done so in the past.

except

that wasn't the only difference???

demonizing "the babyfurs" is super old and disingenuous, they had little to do with it, it was the property damage and the drug overdoses
"we did farts.  now we do sperm.  we are cutting edge." — Theo DeRaadt

Conan

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 09:22:51 pm »
Yeah, there's a difference between cons are safe places and the freak shows that a lot of cons turn out to be... I avoid cons like a plague partially due to this.

It's clear that the con board had no idea how to handle PR at all. When your reaction to a failure is to clam the fuck up for, what was it, six months... All that does is prove you're an idiot and/or a coward.

*sigh* Goddammit.

Question: why does this keep repeating itself amongst cons of all kinds? I've seen video game cons, comic book cons, anime/manga/japanese shit cons all do stuff like this. This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers. The rest fits the standard con bad behavior, including the sexual assault.

I've never explored the con culture that much because of all the horror stories. What leads nerdity in general to these excesses and bullshit?

The difference is that Rainfurrest was incapable of (and apparently unwilling to) providing an adequate level of security and crowd control to make it even look like they had a handle on the situation.

Hotels know shit is going to get broken. If they didn't want shit to get broken they wouldn't be in the business they are in. But when your response to "This year you broke all this stuff, which is more than last year and more than people usually break" is to shrug and rub it off, you're going to wear out your welcome real fast.

As much as I'd enjoy hearing that the bags of dirty diapers in the parking lot were the thing that killed the con, I have a hunch the convention's fate was already decided by the time that incident took place. That's really nothing when compared to flooding a bathroom and a number of drug overdoses >1.

I.S.T.

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 02:03:07 pm »
This incident is different only because of shit filled diapers.

Except that never happened.

And the reason this keeps happening is because people are avoiding the real problem, that the hotel was fucked over and over in damaging ways, and the board did nothing to it.

That's what kills conventions.  You break the hotel's stuff, and you don't get invited back.  You're a board who doesn't punish people for breaking the hotel's stuff, and the hotel loses faith in your ability to solve the damage issue. 

It's not the baby furs.  It never was. No matter how many bullshit rumors about crap filled diapers are spread around, it won't change what really killed Rainfurrest.

I meant that the baby furs were the only difference between this con that fucked itself into oblivion and many others that have done so in the past.

except

that wasn't the only difference???

demonizing "the babyfurs" is super old and disingenuous, they had little to do with it, it was the property damage and the drug overdoses

Okay, I'm going to put this down as another one of my times where I cannot communicate worth a fuck.

I've heard in the past many times where conventions get destroyed by property damage, overdoses, fucking in the halls, etc. What I was trying to say is that the only thing that separated RF2015 from other conventions where the flooding, etc happens were the babyfurs. Not trying to demonize them, make them into the sole reason RF is dead, etc.

Sorry for the confusion, it's my bad.

Pi

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 02:14:47 pm »
i still don't get your point, what do babyfurs have to do with it??? i don't buy that "the only difference" is "the babyfurs", because, like i said twice, drug overdoses
"we did farts.  now we do sperm.  we are cutting edge." — Theo DeRaadt

N

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 03:01:36 pm »
He's not saying it was their fault. He's saying that they were present at this convention. I think it was a joke.

DJ_Izumi

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 07:01:35 pm »
The babyfurs have been a major distraction with Rainfurrest and the Rainfurrest crew didn't even have to spin it to make it happen.

Rainfurrest: Con's dead, people went to hospital and even flooded the hotel server room.  Apparently servers HATE water, whodathunk it?

Fandom: THIS IS ALL THE FAULT OF THE GOD DAMN BABYFURS!  If only they had hid their fetish at the convention!

Rainfurrest: Someone even jammed a towel in a hot tub pump to kill it.

Fandom: Evil babyfurs put diapers in the hot tub!

Rainfurrest: Here's a detailed explanation of our entire failure as an operation.  TLDR; We were fucking idiots.

Fandom: But how do we get rid of these babyfurs who killed Rainfurrest so that it never happens again!?

Give it a year and the Rainfurrest staff will be hailed as 'The heroes who died trying to save Rainfurrest from babyfurs', ensuring that no meaningful lessons are learned.

ProvincialTwit

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 07:21:51 am »
although lets be honest here, babyfurs /are/ a plague upon the earth and should be eliminated with all due speed.

camellia sinensis

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2016, 08:45:38 am »
I guess it depends on what you dislike more, babyfurs or tryhards.

JTfurry

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2016, 09:29:00 am »
I think furries are the worse out of all of them...

Pi

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2016, 10:31:44 am »
He's not saying it was their fault. He's saying that they were present at this convention. I think it was a joke.

oh

that makes sense i guess

"we did farts.  now we do sperm.  we are cutting edge." — Theo DeRaadt

Conan

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2016, 01:41:20 am »
Rainfurrest seems to have sputtered back to life, asking on Twitter whether or not they should hold an event next year:


They had a Twitter poll for a while but seem to have pulled it for some reason. The Doodle poll's description reads: "Our ten-year convention has been through the best of times, and recently the worst of times. With a new admin team place, should we bring back RainFurrest for 2017?"

Of course, they don't have a venue lined up or anything prepared... They're just stirring the pot and likely setting themselves up for failure again. Something tells me one year isn't going to be enough for the local venues to forget what happened in 2015.

They also want you to stop "harassing" their board members, or.... I don't know. You'll be banned from their dead convention.

Murderous Pacifist

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2016, 01:24:04 pm »
There have been some lively discussions since they started that vote. This one contained some particularly illuminating tweets.



Rainfurrest: We realize discussing #RF2015, #RF2016 or #RF2017 is like kicking a hornets nest. However, we continue to encourage open conversation/debate

RainierOunce: @rainfurrest Look. I used to work for you folks. Please, please, for all of us who want a con in Seattle again, do NOT be this naïve.

Rainfurrest: @RainierOunce We appreciate your feedback. Share your thoughts with board@rainfurrest.org Thank you.

RainierOunce: @rainfurrest No, because the board will not listen. The board has never taken years of troublemaking into account.

Rhari: @rainfurrest @KibaAnazuka @RainierOunce yeah and then you get a cookie cutter response that addresses nothing.

Rhari: @RainierOunce @rainfurrest I served on that board and having been a part of those discussions we only acted on the absolute WORST offenders

Rhari: @alohawolf @RainierOunce @rainfurrest with the cookie cutter cut and paste response I got to my concerns, there is 0 faith from me.

RainierOunce: @Rhari @alohawolf @rainfurrest I'm not even going to air my laundry list of reasons why I don't trust the board or the convention again

RainierOunce: @Rhari @alohawolf @rainfurrest Because, and regardless of how many 1-on-1 dialogues you want with me board, you don't know what you're doing

Rhari: @alohawolf I emailed the board directly and basically got "sorry you feel that way, things will change eventually."

This one is the Twitter poll they took. It's already closed, but, the Yes was 46%, No 39%, and Unsure 15%. Despite the majority saying nay or maybe, they took this as a mandate to work on 2017 and put in a tweet #YesRF2017. This should be entertaining to watch.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 06:45:49 pm by Murderous Pacifist »

Ketsuban

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Re: RainFurrest 2015 Postmortem
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 07:15:04 am »
Despite the majority saying nay or maybe, they took this as a mandate to work on 2017
I see you've never participated in an FPTP election.