Author Topic: FAF Plotting a Coup  (Read 8768 times)

Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2015, 04:40:24 am »
Pretty much this.

Besides, FAF is commonly known as a toxic cesspit full of furry-hating furries to the mainsite userbase. Absent hugbox policies and outspoken regulars do that to you. The average FA user won't give two shits about independence, if they get wind of the affair in the first place.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2015, 05:33:05 am »
I honestly wish that yak hadn't stepped in. The forums getting nuked would have driven more people away from FA.

If they actually break off, I'm guessing they'll just slowly wither away.

In one or two places in the thread you can see the usurpers talking about plans for the future. There really dont seem to be any. I'm guessing thats the reason they were open to talks. They probably either have no idea how to advertise themselves without being linked to FA or they don't want to go through the actual effortand expense  of advertising themselves.

*edit* The entire negotiations thing is just so fucking stupid to me. I mean, if Piche was going to shut the place down anway, why do they think hed give a real fuck if they up and left? Either way, his headache is over and its one less thing for him manage/neglect.
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Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2015, 11:44:00 am »
Quote from: Carenath
An tentative agreement was made, to split, since there is no practical or workable solution that would see this community continue to exist and thrive under FA management rules (and more importantly, what plans IMVU have). Since both sides would get a copy of the database, there is also no objection from them for us to delete our data from their copy. To up and move and leave them with nothing at all was sure to place me in legal hot water and even if frivolous I don't have a VC backing me.

FA wants the forums to be "friendly" and "welcoming" and we want our community to survive, to me that seems like a fair compromise but I am as always, open to feedback and I hope this is an acceptable outcome.

Quote
Thing is, they did or at least I see an agreement to split the forums into the "FAF support boards" and our "FAF community" as a concession, an admission that nothing they can offer will entice us back under their roof. One point for example that was immutable was our request that nobody on FA management be given forum admin rights, and that is a point FA management won't budge on for PR, Ego and vague legal reasons. Another point was the mandatory relocation of FA Forums to FA hosting which would force us to trust them.

So, if I'm reading this right, the forums will be split into a community and support, each will have different staff, but they will both be hosted by FA proper now?

*edit* After re reading, I think theyre just cutting ties with FA entirely and having nothing to do with them, save giving them a copy of the DB.
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Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2015, 12:52:46 pm »
Quote from: Carenath
An tentative agreement was made, to split, since there is no practical or workable solution that would see this community continue to exist and thrive under FA management rules (and more importantly, what plans IMVU have). Since both sides would get a copy of the database, there is also no objection from them for us to delete our data from their copy. To up and move and leave them with nothing at all was sure to place me in legal hot water and even if frivolous I don't have a VC backing me.

FA wants the forums to be "friendly" and "welcoming" and we want our community to survive, to me that seems like a fair compromise but I am as always, open to feedback and I hope this is an acceptable outcome.

Quote
Thing is, they did or at least I see an agreement to split the forums into the "FAF support boards" and our "FAF community" as a concession, an admission that nothing they can offer will entice us back under their roof. One point for example that was immutable was our request that nobody on FA management be given forum admin rights, and that is a point FA management won't budge on for PR, Ego and vague legal reasons. Another point was the mandatory relocation of FA Forums to FA hosting which would force us to trust them.

So, if I'm reading this right, the forums will be split into a community and support, each will have different staff, but they will both be hosted by FA proper now?

*edit* After re reading, I think theyre just cutting ties with FA entirely and having nothing to do with them, save giving them a copy of the DB.
Which most likly the forum is gonna just be a support one than an actual forum
so a forum no one uses unless something happens to FA...

DJ_Izumi

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2015, 12:58:11 pm »
so a forum no one uses unless something happens to FA...

Sounds like they'll be infringing on Vivisector's territory! :P

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2015, 01:00:14 pm »
so a forum no one uses unless something happens to FA...

Sounds like they'll be infringing on Vivisector's territory! :P

That's just plain untrue. Sometimes when things happen on Twitter too.
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Kindrift

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2015, 11:48:13 am »
FAF is hosted offsite by Carenath under the intent that users will have somewhere to go whenever FA eats it.  I don't believe they've thought "the mandatory relocation of FA Forums to FA hosting" through, so expect the support forums to run on one of their consumer PC servers named after Cartoon Network's latest fad.  Sorry about the DDOS, Steven has bad RAM, contact us on Twitter!
What if the pentagon has stored lost data of porn and yiff in it's data, has anyone over there saved about millions of porn data and art in it's computer drive? tell me more about the facts what they have in your opinions!

BaconQuicheWithSpinach

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2015, 03:40:45 pm »
FAF has officially been split from FA, and are now called Phoenix Forums located under a new URL. https://phoenix.corvidae.org/index.php

If you go to forums.furaffinity.net, you'll see this, though for how long? Who knows.


The link to the forums on FA itself was removed before the split proper.

nrr

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2015, 10:07:39 am »
If you go to forums.furaffinity.net, you'll see this, though for how long? Who knows.

Not long. It's gone at least as of my having written this.
im glad the "I saw a furry IRL" thread is so good at bringing goons together

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Conan

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2015, 01:33:53 am »
The Phoenix forums are offline, allegedly due to a Cease and Decist letter sent by FurAffinity/IMVU, trying to claim the forums they did not own dropping the FurAffinity name constitutes a "data breach",

https://twitter.com/fatransparency/status/646180850724421632
Quote
According to Summercat, IMVU has issued a Cease and Desist to Carenath and the Phoenix forums
https://twitter.com/Kalmor_Isvaeng/status/646210948890558464
Quote
@galuade_ @fatransparency They're claiming a data breach despite the data not moving an inch and permissions staying the same.

an Hoopoe

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2015, 04:01:44 am »
Some more information. What Kalmor said is from multiple tweets he made that I've put together:

Quote from: Khan_Tigre
do tell me carenath is hiring a lawyer instead of complying with their cease and desist
^
https://twitter.com/KhanTigre/status/646259779053207552

Quote from: Kalmor_Isvaeng
I believe they're negotiating right now since it wasn't an official scary C&D but rather someone inside. FA told us that IMVU have noticed and may be planning something. This is all from what I'm hearing. What actually happened may differ since I cannot say much since I don't have any firm evidence other than that Care was alerted by someone in FA staff that IMVU are and have noticed and don't like what they have seen

DJ_Izumi

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2015, 08:10:11 am »
https://twitter.com/Kalmor_Isvaeng/status/646299112015536128

Quote
We had reached an agreement with FA staff about the forums splitting. IMVU have come in and messed things up. #FATransparency

https://twitter.com/Kalmor_Isvaeng/status/646302101975470080

Quote
Apparently it took that temp notice that was put on the old FA forums domain to even get IMVUs attention drawn towards FA. #FATransparency

So basically, Dragoneer kept the entire embarrassing affair with FAF a secret from his employers and when they found out they were less than happy.  Dragoneer can't even be transparent with the people who sign his paycheques.

Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2015, 08:51:34 pm »
oh my gawd....
you telling me IMVU didnt even know FA lost its Forums during FAU, AND also didnt realize "No the Forums had FA's name but belonged to someone else" and ONLY noticed when someone realized the message left behind when the forums split?

Like damn Neer, You have a boss which means you have to tell said boss whats going on with THEIR site as IMVU owns FA along with telling them WHAT PARTS of FA they actually owned.

I really hope this sorta bites Neer bad, but they may have been trying to save their ass when the secondary offer of having a copy of the Forum database to be given to em.


Conan

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2015, 01:20:10 am »
Via Weasyl Forums:

Quote
[13:50:23] <Carenath> So since a number of you have been hearing different things regarding actions taken, let me at least be honest and clarify. And I'm doing this for the sake of being up-front even though the current backlash against FA for their actions is something I consider poetic justice.
[13:53:17] <Carenath> 1. There was a tentative agreement with yak, pending resolution of who-gets-what with the data. Yak was discussing with myself, Kalmor, Mentova and I believe two others who collectively represented the community interests. Kalmor is a better spokesperson than I am so I let him handle that aspect.
[13:53:17] <Carenath> The sticking point was, apparently, not the data in the public threads at all. The sticking point was the personally identifiable information ("private data") which they could not (apparently under US law) permit to be sent to an unauthorized third party, me.
[13:53:42] <Carenath> Before any resolution on that could be reached, actions were taken both on my part and on the part of FA itself (by Yak himself at request of management) that triggered this and resulted in no peaceful solution now being available to us although I remain at least tentatively optimistic that something might be doable but it would require a quid-pro-quo on my part.
[13:54:38] <Carenath> a. FA management asked Yak to de-link the forums and he did so without considering how I might react. I never thought to contact him and assumed such action was a precursor to FAF being shut down by way of DNS embargo.
[13:55:35] <Carenath> b. I moved wholesale over to phoenix.corvidae.org and removed any FA-specific data expecting then that FA would contact me to request the database backup I had pledged to provide them, sans PII that nrr and others expressly wanted removed and their approval to do this.
[13:55:54] <Carenath> I setup the redirect message (in hindsight, a simple transparent 301 might have been better)
[13:56:46] <Carenath> c. IMVU found out about this, and were not happy. Not just because they saw this as a security breach (they were never included in the plans Yak was working on with us so had no idea what was going on it seems)
[13:57:30] <Carenath> d. I get reached out to, directly, by one of their guys looking to resolve things amicably and without going to the lawyers (nobody likes paying lawyers)
[13:58:31] <Carenath> Yak relayed what was planned, to deal with me, because he did not want me to be placed in harms way, he did not want this whole situation to happen, he actually cares in his own way about the community and was, to his sadness, willing to help us split with all sides happy.
[13:59:34] <Carenath> And what he had told me was that if I cooperated, destroyed the data copies I had after giving FA a copy of the database and forums (prior to the modifications I had made) that they would not press further on the issue. There was no official C&D issued, there was the threat of criminal proceedings if I refused to play nice.
[14:01:20] <Carenath> IMVU take data protection seriously because its a legal liability. Unfortunately the aftermath of this is that nobody on FA staff wants to listen to yak's input so the option to ask for the forum dataset, say, without any of the private messages, or other Private Data is completely off the table unless something changes.
[14:01:54] <Carenath> Consequently my only options are: do nothing at all and throw in the towel, OR, setup a new forum and collectively we work to build a better community than what we had.
[14:02:36] <Carenath> I hold zero blame towards Yak in this, if anything, he's the only person in the whole group that has any common sense.

I like how Yak (our favorite Moldovian hacker developer) apparently was able to convince Carenath that, after years of paying for and operating the server that FAF ran on, suddenly having access to "personally identifiable information" was somehow breaking the law in the United States. If I were Carenath, I'd take this to court in a heartbeat. FAF has been operated as a service to FA with no contract this entire time, and FA has elected to continue to use it despite having every opportunity these past 10+ years to set up their own thing. I'm fairly certain even the dumbest of lawyers could fight this case and have it ruled in a way that doesn't please IMVU, Inc.




Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2015, 07:26:34 am »
Yeah, reading between the lines it appears Carenath isn't in a position to pay a lawyer to tackle a potential lawsuit, no matter how frivolous it may be. Plus he admitted he panicked once Yak dropped the bomb, but who wouldn't? Facing to get pressed for criminal charges is bad enough on its own, but waging a protracted legal battle against a corporate entity?

If we assume Yak is honest (which, granted, is a big if), it's interesting how IMVU cut out the Three Stooges entirely from the negotiations and went for Yak as their exclusive spokesman.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2015, 08:04:28 am »
I'm not sure if Piche and the others were cut out. It could just be the case that Yak decided to leak IMVUs plans to Carenath for whatever reason.
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Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2015, 10:12:02 am »


Yak alone negotiated the forum's further existence with the troika of Carenath, Kalmor and Mentova, and now relays IMVU's demands to them.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, Yak makes deals behind Piche's back.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 10:33:50 am »
I'm aware he wasn't dealing with Neer et al during the discussions.  But since IMVU claims they didnt know about any of this, I dont think it can be claimed Yak was negotiating on their behalf at that point.

Neers wanting to know the actual content of Yaks conversation with Carenath doesn't necessarily mean they don't know what information Yak was meant to relay. IMVU could have delegated it to Neer and Neer could delegated it to Yak, we don't really know.

Do we even know if Yak is actually an employee of IMVU like Piche? Or is he still just a volunteer?
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Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2015, 01:18:45 pm »
IMVU didn't know of FAF's split; Yak negotiated the transition to Phoenix.

Now Yak acted as IMVU's messenger boy after they found out about their wayward forums. And according to the IRC logs Care and co. spoke to an actual IMVU employee? How much did Yak include Piche in all this? Judging by the info so far, not much. Whatever the case may be, all the dealings are incredibly opaque. What else is new for FA.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2015, 01:42:58 pm »
If IMVU are starting to handle things like this with non FA staff, I think it might not be too much longer until Piche gets his rude awakening and learns just how little control he actually has here.
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