Author Topic: FAF Plotting a Coup  (Read 9170 times)

Conan

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FAF Plotting a Coup
« on: August 30, 2015, 09:14:11 am »
The madness on FurAffinity Forums has gotten to the point that Carenath, who still actually operates the server the forums live on (and a server Piche and Co. do not have access to outside the forums interface) has returned and suggested that perhaps it's time to split the Forums away from FA. And all this discussion is taking place right on the forums, right under the noses of the Three Stooges themselves.

That's right, people are getting so tired of FA that even some of it's community features are getting up and leaving.

https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5449801#post5449801

Quote
So almost a one week ago this whole meltdown kicked off with a more detailed and reasonably accurate review of events written up and published on Flayrah. What began with Kalmor being banned snowballed into the resignation of all but one of the forum moderation staff and concluded with the forums being effectively killed off with new account registrations closed and no updates. This leaves me and others with the question: What will happen to FAF now?
Since 2010 I have been hosting the forums and continue to do so although I've not been a staff member in over a year, primarily for the community but also as a way of keeping them online when FA itself was down (which at the time it was for over a month). With recent events I have been asked by more than one individual if I would consider breaking the forums away into their own independent operation.

I see at least three possible futures and I believe it is the community that should have input into what happens to them.


The status quo is maintained. I am aware that the trio of directors are not fans of the forums, they are considered "hostile" and "unfriendly". Previously they were run and managed largely autonomously with a deserved reputation for not being a hugbox where critical thinking was not discouraged and acting like a "special snowflake" got you chewed up by the regulars. A fear is that the forums will go the way of the IRC channel, abandoned, forgotten and left to its own devices; except when something causes a stir.
The forums are closed down entirely or sanitized to the extent that they end up as nothing but a support board, heavily policed and the community is killed off.
The forums are floated as an independent entity as they used to be before and new or existing staff brought back on board to run them largely as they had been in the past with all private forums and their content purged, current staff defanged and a review and likely reversal of previous bans, particularly those issued unfairly.


Accepting a moderator role here under the current managers will require that you provide them a copy of your legal ID and sign an unenforceable NDA, I do not anticipate many people will be jumping at the chance. In the past, the admin-only areas were once split into an admins-only private forum there is no explicit requirement that these ones host data that FA proper considers proprietary and confidential so I find this NDA/ID requirement utter lunacy.

The forums are not a priority for the current managers as evidenced by the lack of communication during this week, the former staff (including some fired without notice) are willing to come back and run the community.

The idea that FAF could just up and leave FA is quite amusing. I hope Sean didn't forget to tell IMVU that he didn't own the forums that had his site's name on them! Also make note of the part that talks about NDA's... Sean was trying to get moderators to sign NDA's when the person who operates the server was not. I actually have to wonder if he forgot FAF was hosted on a server he is not in control of.

Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 11:27:49 am »
heck its even funny as the person who runs the forum's server is technically NOT an admin. If they pack up and go solo away from FA, then FA would have to add to their list of things to do is to BUILD A NEW FORUM.

note this did happen before on a smaller level of which folks who frequent a area on the forum that was removed, those folks up and went to make their own forum (though many of em still post on FAF but only during major things).

It is true though, folks considered FAF the most hostile of furry forums but for different reasons somewhat. We won't go "Its ok, you are fine" but actually give advice and tell a person who need help to actually get help.

farce majeure

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2015, 01:31:51 pm »
It appears someone took it offline, can't post or access any posts contained therein.
yes yes get out etc

ColonThree

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2015, 02:39:55 pm »
It appears someone took it offline, can't post or access any posts contained therein.

Quote
The forums will be offline for the next while as we sort out a few things. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

The phrasing sounds like typical FA wordfarts, so my guess is on the usual response of SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. while 'neer tries to tear himself away from video games and browsing fetish artwork to actually do something.
~Witty quote~

Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2015, 03:13:08 pm »
RIP in pieces, FAF.

Conan

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2015, 05:12:20 pm »


The old regime has been ousted.

an Hoopoe

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 05:55:21 pm »
Yak said in a post, that:

Quote from: Yak
There is a discussion taking place between the forums staff and FA main staff on how to take things forward.
^
https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5457433&viewfull=1#post5457433

Carenath said, in a post made after Yak's:

Quote from: Carenath
The ideal outcome, as we see it, is to return FAF to its previous method of management - with one or more competent administrators and a team of moderators. No NDA rubbish, No legal ID rubbish. We're a furry community, not a police state.
^
https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5457462&viewfull=1#post5457462

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2015, 06:58:24 am »
The old regime has been ousted.

Neer et al still seem to have their admin rights, they just don't appear on the staff page. So it seems the only change has been Carenath is an Admin now.

Supposedly they are negotiating to reach a conclusion about what is best for the community and if they cannot reach an agreement, then they will separate.

Course, given that the denizens of FAF overwhelmingly wants to seperate from FA entirely, I don't see what possible benefit could be had from negotiating. Did Carenath just want to be made an Admin without having to actually be responsible for the whole mess? They might get rid of NDAs and the asinine things they were making mods do, but that doesn't really mean fuck all for the actual community if the people currently in charge stay in charge.
We tried, we failed.

Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 11:11:52 am »
The old regime has been ousted.

Neer et al still seem to have their admin rights, they just don't appear on the staff page. So it seems the only change has been Carenath is an Admin now.

Supposedly they are negotiating to reach a conclusion about what is best for the community and if they cannot reach an agreement, then they will separate.

Course, given that the denizens of FAF overwhelmingly wants to seperate from FA entirely, I don't see what possible benefit could be had from negotiating. Did Carenath just want to be made an Admin without having to actually be responsible for the whole mess? They might get rid of NDAs and the asinine things they were making mods do, but that doesn't really mean fuck all for the actual community if the people currently in charge stay in charge.

Just FAF actually trust the FAF mods and FAF mods were competent. Heck in the past to actually be an admin on the main site, you had to actually go thru being a mod on the forums. Its also been known that Carenath didnt like Neer so much due to shit he has done before too to the forums.

Conan

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 03:21:51 am »
The old regime has been ousted.

Neer et al still seem to have their admin rights, they just don't appear on the staff page. So it seems the only change has been Carenath is an Admin now.

Supposedly they are negotiating to reach a conclusion about what is best for the community and if they cannot reach an agreement, then they will separate.

Course, given that the denizens of FAF overwhelmingly wants to seperate from FA entirely, I don't see what possible benefit could be had from negotiating. Did Carenath just want to be made an Admin without having to actually be responsible for the whole mess? They might get rid of NDAs and the asinine things they were making mods do, but that doesn't really mean fuck all for the actual community if the people currently in charge stay in charge.

Kalmor has returned and claims they (Dragoneer and Co.) do not have powers anymore. It sounds like a few of the former forum mods and Carenath are negotiating with FA, but it sounds like it's either FAF remains operated separate from FA (Princess Piche doesn't meddle with the staff) or it breaks off completely.

Gryphoneer

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 04:16:19 am »
To elaborate, Carenath forms a troika with former forum mods Mentova and Kalmor.

Mentova stated the three stooges asked for restored admin access to appoint new mods. ( https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5460275&viewfull=1#post5460275 )

The One Admin To Rule Them All confirmed Piche/IMVU/Best Buy owns the domain name, brand and logos. ( https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5460585&viewfull=1#post5460585 )

It's interesting to see who and who isn't part of the new revolutionary clique.

an Hoopoe

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 05:36:08 am »
Kalmor has returned and claims they (Dragoneer and Co.) do not have powers anymore. It sounds like a few of the former forum mods and Carenath are negotiating with FA, but it sounds like it's either FAF remains operated separate from FA (Princess Piche doesn't meddle with the staff) or it breaks off completely.

I wonder if there really is any negations with FA (as in Dragoneer and the Gruesome twosome of Chase and Sciggles), since I noticed Kalmor described it as:

Quote from: Kalmor
[...] Yak has just been talking to us and trying to understand where we stand (and the reasons why. We've also been talking about the history of FAF as context) and is reporting to Dragoneer. [...]
^
https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5461351&viewfull=1#post5461351

Given that Dragoneer is the king of IMVUaffinity, why couldn't he make contact? Perhaps Yak took the initiative and Dragoneer doesn't want to or won't talk to the FAF staff. I wouldn't be suprised if Princess Piche is hopping mad and feels that the FAF staff and Carenath have betrayed him. Sciggles apparently hates FAF and everyone on it and Chase just throws his weight around on there.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2015, 06:25:22 am »
Dragoneer and Chase have basically only been demoted to mods, and posses whatever powers come with that.

Quote
Dragoneer and Chase do not have admin rights (hence can't appoint new mods or otherwise fuck with the forum). Their names are light blue hence can perform mod actions.

Quote
Rest assured though that if they try to do anything to or in this thread that we don't like, we will be seriously unhappy and will severely hinder our discussions, also pushing us more towards an independence option no matter what they say.

One wonders why you would even give them the opportunity fuck up, but hey, what do I know?
We tried, we failed.

Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2015, 07:21:47 am »
Dragoneer and Chase have basically only been demoted to mods, and posses whatever powers come with that.

Quote
Dragoneer and Chase do not have admin rights (hence can't appoint new mods or otherwise fuck with the forum). Their names are light blue hence can perform mod actions.

Quote
Rest assured though that if they try to do anything to or in this thread that we don't like, we will be seriously unhappy and will severely hinder our discussions, also pushing us more towards an independence option no matter what they say.

One wonders why you would even give them the opportunity fuck up, but hey, what do I know?
well its as I said on FAF
"Nothing worst than being stuck in a room with a button you COULD press but if you press it everyone will know"
note vBulletin can revert changes due to Neer and chase have the LOWEST mod abilities which is just removing posts and infractions.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2015, 07:29:54 am »
well its as I said on FAF
"Nothing worst than being stuck in a room with a button you COULD press but if you press it everyone will know"
note vBulletin can revert changes due to Neer and chase have the LOWEST mod abilities which is just removing posts and infractions.

Sounds like an exercise in dickwaving to me, not an attempt to actually accomplish anything. FAF as normal, nothing to see here.

Its amazing to me that they left YAK with all his powers. Isn't he one of the biggest offenders of banning random assholes on there?
We tried, we failed.

an Hoopoe

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 10:45:30 am »
It looks like Dragoneer intended to shut the forums down, after the mass resignation of moderators but Yak persuaded him to appoint new moderators instead, and that gave a window for Dragoneer and the Gruesome Twosomes powers to be taken away:

Quote from: Kalmor
Yak is trying to liaise with us because (if what I'm hearing is correct)  he asked Dragoneer if he could take care of this because Neer was going  to originally nuke the forums from orbit (the community side, at  least). We have to give at least some props to him otherwise we wouldn't  be discussing this here now. We've basically been telling him how we  feel about this whole thing and the reasons why. He said last night that  he was going to report to dragoneer today.

https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5461848&viewfull=1#post5461848

Quote from: Kalmor
Yak said if he hadn't have said anything, the forums would be closed the day when the vast majority of the forum mods resigned. From my understanding (I could be wrong), Neer had then, listening to Yak wanting to keep the forums, planned to recruit new mods before his admin access was taken away. I guess it took him by surprise that when he logged in, he couldn't gain any access to the adminCP.

Talks started on the first day the permissions were removed (during the bit of downtime we had is when they first noticed).
^
https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5461880&viewfull=1#post5461880

Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 01:57:44 pm »
well its as I said on FAF
"Nothing worst than being stuck in a room with a button you COULD press but if you press it everyone will know"
note vBulletin can revert changes due to Neer and chase have the LOWEST mod abilities which is just removing posts and infractions.

Sounds like an exercise in dickwaving to me, not an attempt to actually accomplish anything. FAF as normal, nothing to see here.

Its amazing to me that they left YAK with all his powers. Isn't he one of the biggest offenders of banning random assholes on there?
actually no
Yak is actually would be considered the LEAST harmful of the main site, the biggest offender was chase who was random banning folks.
and as an hoopoe stated if it wasnt for Yak stopping Neer from nuking and starting over  we wouldnt actually be in a spot to force em to negotiate on FAF's terms.

Anarcho-Loser

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2015, 02:50:53 am »
Arshes Nei, an ex staff member, rings in with their opinion and experiences while working with FA and FAF.

https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/1535953-Future-for-FA-Forums?p=5463126&viewfull=1#post5463126
We tried, we failed.

rodox_video

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2015, 11:08:12 pm »
I honestly wish that yak hadn't stepped in. The forums getting nuked would have driven more people away from FA.
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Folseh

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Re: FAF Plotting a Coup
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2015, 12:25:29 am »
I honestly wish that yak hadn't stepped in. The forums getting nuked would have driven more people away from FA.
Well as some folks pointed out: the forums going away wouldnt actually do ANYTHING to those who mainly use the main site
The only time folks hit the forums in large numbers is ONLY when something is wrong with the website or anything else major
I mean theres only 84k users adn the most the forums EVER have gotten user wise is 5.5k users but the FAF average user count is...200...

its literally at this point 200 or so users who see FAF as its own nice community that is defending their community...
FAF is the "OTHER" side of town that folks dont really acknowledge unless they have to pass thru it to get to somewhere and wouldnt mind it being gone other than the folks who live there...