Author Topic: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer  (Read 14145 times)

Glaice

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Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« on: February 07, 2011, 08:23:46 am »
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/91150-Trouble-Ticket-Policy-for-Site-Admins

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=324Z7Q7I - Thread as of 4:52 PM today -- In case of nukage.


So yea, Arshes made a thread being displeased about the way there are good-for-nothing-lazyass admins doing shit on the site, not to mention the backlog of TTs being on the burden on a select few while a few of Neer's BFF admin buddies (Wicht, for example) aren't fucking helping at all. So far besides Arshes, Witchie, ArielMT, Pinkuh and probably one or two more have spoken up on this issue Dragoneer isn't dealing with and by the sounds of it, it's dealing a blow to his ego on the posts past #100.


EDIT: Pinkuh was the one threatened.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 01:53:19 pm by Glaice »

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 08:26:01 am »
I believe Arshes and a couple of other mods have talked about going on strike as administrators, if just to teach Dragoneer a lesson.

I do wonder how 'Neer will react to his administrative team rising up against him like this.

Glaice

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 08:33:30 am »
I could imagine the huge amount of damage on both his and the site's reputation would have with the backlash from the community and admin team once such a thing spreads off site.


If you ask me, I'm fed up with Dragoneer's shenanigans and really want someone at the reigns who would actually care about such matters as opposed to what he thinks best despite staff's disagreements with him.

Murderous Pacifist

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2011, 09:06:20 am »
This issue is so easy for Dragoneer to fix, too. It's almost as if he WANTS people to leave FA. Having the few decent admins leave the site in disgust would be disastrous to FA. I also think it's funny that Pinkuh of all people was the one threatened directly by Dragoneer over this issue of good admins. Oh, and, she's putting her own spin on the drama she caused: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/91150-Trouble-Ticket-Policy-for-Site-Admins?p=2356765&viewfull=1#post2356765 I see this ending either in staff leaving in disgust or forced to quit, or Dragoneer actually takes this seriously, apologizes, and makes some half-assed gesture to placate his near-revolting staff.

EDIT: Oh, Arashes has handed down an ultimatum:
Quote
I will say that if an apology is not handed down today, and the admins are not removed the following day, I will call a strike.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 09:17:49 am »

ProvincialTwit

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 09:37:06 am »
What a stupid sig.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 10:26:56 am »
Witchiebunny reveals the threat 'Neer made that helped kick off the thread in question; emphasis mine:

Quote
We were threatened with removal from the administrative team for "guilt tripping" him, I.e "anyone who tries to guilt trip me on this will be the first to go." Pinkuh was threatened with removal from the chat altogether.

In essence, when the thread/topic was brought up, he dismissed the thread as being from a bunch of "whiny users" and then equated our bringing up the topic to guilt tripping before issuing the threat. The threat itself is fairly innocuous, its his site. However the fact that the threat was issue because he didn't want to hear what we had to say, and labeled us guilt trippers because of it...that is what bothers me. Its the mentality, more than the actual threatened consequence.

loki

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2011, 04:28:02 pm »
A mature man would admit his wrongdoings and make amends with those he has slighted. Dragoneer is not this man.

Spip

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2011, 04:41:29 pm »
Oh, Arashes has handed down an ultimatum:
Quote
I will say that if an apology is not handed down today, and the admins are not removed the following day, I will call a strike.
Wonderful. I predict that no such apology will happen, and one of two things will follow:
1. Arshes meekly backs down, because furries are cowards, OR
2. Arshes strikes, all right -- but none of the other admins do, because furries are cowards.

an Hoopoe

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 04:54:08 pm »
Arshes posted a journal about this on the FA mainsite:

Quote from: Arshes
If anyone has visited the forums recently you may have noticed my post
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/91150-Trouble-Ticket-Policy-for-Site-Admins

I wanted to start off by saying please do not use my thread to pile on other issues. Please note I'm not dismissing those problems, I want to keep focused on the issue I posted. So please respect my wish on that. I just hate seeing another topic get closed due to mass derailment.

Yes, we obviously have a problem with the TT system, some of it is technical. However, another problem of it lies with us, the admins. We've had staff stay primarily inactive for 2-3 years now. When FA started the changeover with Dragoneer starting the operations, one thing I remember in the beginning he was diligent about was not retaining inactive admins. It was actually one of the problems that had been present during Jheryn's starting of the site. You had either inactive admins or people who were just buddies.

It did seem like at the time he may have been keeping his word. It was a few years ago I was allowed to help administrate the main site and not just the forums. I was happy to help work on tickets but soon became burned out because there were days I was the only one working on tickets.

We had staff members that were inactive during this time who were seemingly completely able to respond and talk on our chat, but unable to give support in answering tickets. Perhaps not "unable" but sometimes unwilling.

Maybe this wasn't intentional and life came before these inactive admins, but it's somewhat like watching the guy goof off at work while you're stuck in your cubicle with a stack of paperwork and invoices that need to be handled. How would you feel towards that fellow co worker? Now put up with that for years.

You would make a mention of it but feel ironically guilt tripped into "making others look bad". I just felt like dropping off myself like these admins have done.

However, I then saw how forum members who have worked their way up the ranks get the same treatment. This made me angry. The hack in December exposed problems and opened old issues for me. Many admins who I hadn't seen over those years were suddenly pouring into the chat room during the hack. I realized this wasn't another "sit down and hush" but speak about it.

I sent emails to Neer and cc'd admins that were in the top tier and were also fed up by what one admin put very well "Paper Badge Admins," telling him this must stop. I was assured about a policy. I am not worried about a policy. I'm worried about enforcement. I'm worried about leadership, and the corrosive effect these idle admins have.

After restoring the forums, I went back to see if reality settled in for these admins who have embarrassed us by not answering tickets. It was the same behavior. I went back for pages looking to see if any of them have bothered to answer in our TT system. Save for maybe 1-2 tickets, none of these inactive admins have shown up.

It's now February, and I knew if I didn't speak up publicly like I said I would it would just remain one of those items on a large plate of Procrastination BLT. Though BLT can mean Bullshit, Lies, Trouble.

Since my posting of this problem of the forums, we were threatened by Dragoneer as being part of whiny issues and that if we spoke up about this we were to be released. I think witchiebunny  witchiebunny has spoken about this well. It's the fact you threaten the very people who are tired of this and are active but refuse to let go of those that sit around, makes this more damning.

We understand that this is his site, his funding and in some ways his blood, since I do believe that he has been unfairly castrated at times. I've been there when you pour a lot of time and money into a website and feel like you're slapped in the face by some of its userbase. However, we also work hard to try to help the site. We shouldn't have had to come to this point with idle admins, that was his responsibility and not ours. That was his promise.

Those idle admins that may feel offended. Maybe what you should feel is shame that you allowed yourself on and let this situation degrade. The right thing to do is know you're past your prime on this site and let the status go. I'm sure we could have worked on like we do on the forums having a senior or recognized status for your work. Now you're just a burden on our morale. You had several years to make this right and not just the owner of this site.

We staff members that have been burdened shouldn't have to feel afraid. We have our differences but we do have a common goal: to make this site better. Not all our ideas will be feasible but do you truly believe that myself or any other admins upset about this issue want to see FA go down in flames?

We have 16 pages of TTs and increasing by the day. Please do not spite staff that simply want a change that you well know is for the better. Please do not push it where your staff will not work on TTs until this matter is resolved.

Thanks all for reading this as I know this is a lot of tl;dr

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2080847/

Dragoneer responded to it:

Quote from: dragoneer
And on that note, the new admin policies go active tomorrow. Any inactive admins following the new policies will be removed.

Quote from: Dragoneer
It's been a long time coming.

While I see Arshes has gone our of her way to put me on the spot, this is something I have been working on and striving to resolve. The admin policies cover far more than ticket management, and go so far as to leaking private admin issues, user privacy concerns and account security as a whole.

People not adhering to those issues will be removed. The idle admin issue has been a problem, and Arshes is right on that. I do not agree with her methods here, but I agree with what she has to say nonetheless.

Quote from: Arshesnei
It's because you had 2 years to remove them. So yes, I am putting you on the spot for that.

Quote from: Dragoneer
I can respect that, but I posted the revised admin/trouble ticket management policy in the staff chat several times.

You could have left feedback, responded, given your thoughts. Instead, here we are. You're leaking private admin information, an act you yourself no less attacked Witchiebunny over a month ago demanding that if it happens again any admin taking said actions be removed for doing so.

You have truth to your words, and honesty about them, but there were better ways to go about this.

The admin policy was near completion, and it covered this. It covered everything. Why didn't you even ask me for an update on it? Instead, I got next to nothing.

Quote from: Arshesnei
I had, your inactive admins had the audacity to complain.

You had the email last month.

You can point fingers at me all you want and get rid of me and piss off more site admins that felt this burden for a long time. I put my neck and status on the line for them. I was tired of it.

2 years. What is the excuse?

Quote from: Dragoneer
I have no excuse. Complacency? Best word I can put down.

It's not my intent to burn. I want to fix this, resolve this, move on and improve the site. What I said this weekend was out of line, said out of anger and frustration at the situation. I'm frustrated with myself, and I took it out on the people who didn't deserve it. I'm not above admitting an error.

December was a wake-up call, and what happened following that made me realize the need to change and the need to fix this. The staff, the site, everything.

I meant what I said and I said what I meant. I want to improve, and the site to improve as well. And I'm serious and steadfast on that.

And I'll stick to that cause. If you choose to give me another chance, I will respect that, and not let you down. I can't ask much more than that.

Quote from: Arshesnei
Thank you for understanding.

I will be happy to work with you as long as I see the improvement. The inactive admins are long past their due, there is no policy where we need to see that. If they want back as Pinkuh's suggestion they will need to re-apply and re-train, but they got a line now. We are showing promise with those forum members. You should really see how much they want to work together to improve the site.

Those are the people I look out for, they're the staff I want to see evolve. I have to protect that no matter how silly or motherly that comes off.

Their ability to communicate and want to work on issues is something our staff sorely lacks (sans those that have come from the forums).

Murderous Pacifist

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 10:32:56 am »
Well, Yak weighed in in page 13 just after Dragoneer made his bullshit apology. http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/91150-Trouble-Ticket-Policy-for-Site-Admins?p=2358711&viewfull=1#post2358711  Net result in the resulting exchanges is the staff are even angrier and Yak gets rejected by everyone before he finally leaves the thread.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 11:42:00 am »
I love how he started that post by saying "I won't take sides", then he almost exclusively takes Dragoneer's side for the whole time he's in that thread, demeaning the admins at every turn and bitching at everyone else for getting involved in a situation that he thinks should have been kept private to begin with.

Yak needs to shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin'.

Conan

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 12:10:31 pm »
I love how he started that post by saying "I won't take sides", then he almost exclusively takes Dragoneer's side for the whole time he's in that thread, demeaning the admins at every turn and bitching at everyone else for getting involved in a situation that he thinks should have been kept private to begin with.

Yak needs to shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin'.


Murderous Pacifist

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 12:22:44 pm »
Yeah, he didn't do well in that thread, calling the affair trivial and insignificant. The issue is a major one, and I'm pretty sure (feel free to slap me for giving FA staff too much credit) Arshes and others wouldn't have brought this issue to the public if Dragoneer was really just about to resolve the issue or told them anything. Actually, now we're on the subject of Yak, what's the verdict about him? Is he incompetent, or is he alright at coding but he can't get shit done because he's the only coder?

And, wow, interesting picture.

MazelTovCocktail

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2011, 03:31:08 pm »
With the way Princess Piche runs FA, how he's kept the admins from going rip-shit riot on him for six years is beyond me.
I don't like to hit little bitches with glasses, but when midgets step up, I stomp midget asses.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2011, 02:40:22 am »
With the way Princess Piche runs FA, how he's kept the admins from going rip-shit riot on him for six years is beyond me.

They're not too far off, really. Arshes Nei revealed that Dragoneer is giving the inactive mods a ten-day grace period to start doing their work (ostensibly, if they don't, they're fired), then said this in a later post (emphasis mine):

Quote
I'm hesitantly giving the 10 day period over a try. If he does not get rid of inactive staff or we see mediocrity, it's likely discussions for a strike would be done. As I said on my journal I'm willing to work with him and give him that chance. I was more stern because I don't appreciate staff members being threatened.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2011, 01:22:28 pm »
Witchiebunny, while remaining an FA Forums admin, has resigned as an FA admin.

The exodus begins.

Pi

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2011, 01:29:50 pm »
Witchiebunny, while remaining an FA Forums admin, has resigned as an FA admin.

The exodus begins.

Rumor has it that Witchie resigned, at least in part, due to the events that culminated in my FAF and mainsite "two week suspensions" for "disturbances". Welp.
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Murderous Pacifist

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2011, 03:15:05 pm »
Witchiebunny, while remaining an FA Forums admin, has resigned as an FA admin.

The exodus begins.

Rumor has it that Witchie resigned, at least in part, due to the events that culminated in my FAF and mainsite "two week suspensions" for "disturbances". Welp.

Two weeks? I thought temp bans always showed up as yellow. Your name's red, which I thought meant a permanent ban. Either way, real nice of whoever did it. Do you think it's Dragoneer, or someone else? It could have been Arshes, but the 'rumors' you mentioned, coupled with Witchie going to work under Arshes on the forum, would make me guess Dragoneer. I guess he can't be bothered to address his user base, but he can still look through the thread and retaliate against people he doesn't like.

Freehaven

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Re: Admins speak out on TT issue, gets threatened by Dragoneer
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2011, 03:18:49 pm »
Two weeks? I thought temp bans always showed up as yellow. Your name's red, which I thought meant a permanent ban. Either way, real nice of whoever did it. Do you think it's Dragoneer, or someone else? It could have been Arshes, but the 'rumors' you mentioned, coupled with Witchie going to work under Arshes on the forum, would make me guess Dragoneer. I guess he can't be bothered to address his user base, but he can still look through the thread and retaliate against people he doesn't like.

Given how I railed on 'Neer in that thread, I'm honestly waiting for my own suspension to come down, mainsite or FAF (or both).

Especially since I know exactly why I would be suspended, since I haven't done anything ban-worthy on the mainsite or FAF, and I could then use it to prove that 'Neer would rather ignore/silence his critics than fix the numerous problems he, as site owner/lead administrator, is ultimately responsible for.

Then again, that might be why he's not coming after me.

Yet.