Author Topic: so about this Zaush guy  (Read 54974 times)

BaconQuicheWithSpinach

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so about this Zaush guy
« on: December 23, 2010, 06:35:58 am »
I'm curious to know what happened that caused him and Keovi to split up, assuming people have been trawling through his notes, if it's there at all.

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2010, 09:13:16 am »
It could have been any one of a million incredibly fucked-up and terrible possibilities, given what we now know.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 12:58:20 pm »
I don't know; I guess that something extraordinary is possible but just going with Occam's Razor and what was said at the time of their breakup I don't think there's a lot there. I mean, it's certainly possible or even likely that he forced himself on her one or more times, but to read both parties' journals it sounded like, at the time, they had an open relationship, and she got plenty and he basically got none (that was also mentioned in Ferality's leaked note, I believe). Combine that with the fact that Adam Wan is almost universally regarded as an abrasive asshole, contrasted with the nice things I've seen people write about Keovi...I'm guessing someone finally convinced her she could and should do better.

I guess what I'm saying is that it probably happened over time, which is how most relationships end. That and the fact that open relationships never work and are often entered into as an ill-fated attempt to patch an irreparable relationship.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 01:28:59 pm »
I'm curious to know what happened that caused him and Keovi to split up, assuming people have been trawling through his notes, if it's there at all.

Hey.

Hey.

Shut up and go back to...pfft...'furstralia'...ahaahahaha jesus christ that is almost worse than 'rainfurrest' goddamn you people

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 01:47:45 pm »
I'm curious to know what happened that caused him and Keovi to split up, assuming people have been trawling through his notes, if it's there at all.

Nobody cares.

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 02:11:52 pm »
I'm curious to know what happened that caused him and Keovi to split up, assuming people have been trawling through his notes, if it's there at all.

I think the "adam wan isn't a very good person, we only put up with him because he draws dongs" thing has a lot to do with it.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 02:52:29 pm »
I'm curious to know what happened that caused him and Keovi to split up, assuming people have been trawling through his notes, if it's there at all.

I think the "adam wan isn't a very good person, we only put up with him because he draws dongs" thing has a lot to do with it.

no you retard he draws good so who cares if hes a good person or not!?!?!

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 08:38:24 pm »
I don't know; I guess that something extraordinary is possible but just going with Occam's Razor and what was said at the time of their breakup I don't think there's a lot there. I mean, it's certainly possible or even likely that he forced himself on her one or more times, but to read both parties' journals it sounded like, at the time, they had an open relationship, and she got plenty and he basically got none (that was also mentioned in Ferality's leaked note, I believe). Combine that with the fact that Adam Wan is almost universally regarded as an abrasive asshole, contrasted with the nice things I've seen people write about Keovi...I'm guessing someone finally convinced her she could and should do better.

I guess what I'm saying is that it probably happened over time, which is how most relationships end. That and the fact that open relationships never work and are often entered into as an ill-fated attempt to patch an irreparable relationship.

It's honestly amazing just how far Wan got. Even for someone who could draw/was popular. It's as if nobody suspected for a second that the furry subculture would eventually harbor sexual predators that targeted, you know, women.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 08:52:02 pm »
It's honestly amazing just how far Wan got. Even for someone who could draw/was popular. It's as if nobody suspected for a second that the furry subculture would eventually harbor sexual predators that targeted, you know, women.

They were too busy covering up the ones that targeted children and animals

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2010, 05:08:57 am »
Zaush has now posted a journal. Essentially it seems to be; I'm a hopeless flirt suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune *sigh*:

Quote from: Zaush on December 24th, 2010
At this moment, I'm sitting at my parent's house during the holidays, which is up in Oregon. I don't have much access to a computer while I'm up here, but I'm doing my best to at least pop on here and let people know I'm not pulling out of FA.

The attack on FA happened the Friday that I flew out of state, and all of my submissions have been deleted and notes collected. Those personal notes have been spread around various sites, though I doubt anyone choosing to read them will learn much more than new and inventive ways to turn down commissions.

My submissions should be back up in a few days, according to Dragoneer, and at that point I'll need to re-upload the files attached to them. Not really a big deal, but I doubt I'll be able to get around to it before I'm back home in CA, some time after the 27th.

I hope everyone has a great time with family and friends this holiday season, I know I am. I'm soaking up every minute of it that I can.

Merry Christmas FA!
...

Against my better judgement, I'm going to say a few things about all the other misinformation going around about me. Skip this part if you don't care, or you'd prefer to avoid drama. In fact, you might be better off skipping it anyway, because I have a way of over-wording shit and it's probably pretty boring.

I'd like to apologize to anyone who was mentioned or dragged into this mess. You don't deserve this kind of negative attention. For the record, half of the people mentioned by a certain individual are people I've never even met in person.

That said, those seeking specific details about any of this can find that information elsewhere. There exist various screenshots of chat logs, taken by me, of my conversation with said individual. They were highly private, and took valuable time away from my family visit to collect. I had to remote VNC connection into the computer the chatting took place from, then take screenshots of the log viewer window. Though salacious in nature, and from an earlier time in my life, they show that none of my actions were against the will of another. If you still choose to believe otherwise, then I can't account for your thirst for gossip and drama. At worst, you could probably accuse me of being a hopeless flirt, and sexually active. Let me know when those become illegal, or anybody else's business, for that matter.

Nothing I say will stop people from commenting here or elsewhere, but please keep the drama to yourself. You may want to voice your hatred toward me, my accuser, or others, but there's no swifter way to end up on my block list (whenever I get around to it, and if you don't get banned or moderated for harassment). It's inappropriate. I don't care what you think you know or what you heard from a friend of a friend, and I doubt anyone else cares either. If your goal is to get a rise out of me, then you don't know how often I've dealt with the same kind of grade-school politics and immature bullshit. The world has seen it all, and it got old a long time ago.

If you still can't keep it to yourself, I hear I have a regular thread on lulz you're welcome to contribute to. As an added bonus, the people there are glad to gobble up any new dirt you can make up about me, and you won't even be asked to account for any of it.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1966002/

Glancing at the comments as well, AFAICS, there is no evidence of any introspection, reassessment of behaviour or anything. He even takes the chance to boast about how you can't afford to commission him.

One thing I thought was particularly  telling was the statement by Ferality in her note to 'neer that Zaush claimed that she owed him sex. Consensual sex is something entered into freely, so if one is using leverage("you owe me") to obtain sex, it's not really consensual.

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2010, 05:14:36 am »
Anyhow, for the record here is a round up of what has been revealed and transpired so far.

Notes between Ferality and Dragoneer (the leaking of which started this). I seems from the time stamps ("15 days ago" last saturday) the notes were sent around the end of November/start of December:

Quote from: Ferality
I'd like your advice on an issue I have with a very well-known user of this site. I don't know who else I could turn to.

Less than a year ago this user coerced me into having sex with him. He manipulated me emotionally when I was depressed and especially vulnerable. I am still dealing with the trauma that situation has caused.

Only after my experience with him did I hear about him having done the same thing to other female artists within the furry fandom before. I do wish someone had warned me about him. I know that he is beginning the cycle again with at least one female artist that I know, who has just turned 18. He is at least 27 years of age and is very well aware of what he is doing. I can only speculate how many others he has solicited.

It especially concerns me that while in his presence, he boasted about his previous use of alcohol to rape a girl.

My question to you is should I stay quiet like that majority of his victims have, or should I say something? And if I do say something, should I avoid saying it on FA? I have never spoken up about my experience with him except to those closest to me. If I could prevent him from abusing another person like he has me, I think it would be worth it.

Thank you for your time,
-Ferality

Quote from: Dragoneer
Can you give me the details on the person/circumstances/dates/times?

I promise I will keep it confidential. But if he's doing something like that I can try to do a quick survey from my side to see if I can see any discernible issues.

Plus (don't take this the wrong way) going public with anything like this turns dirty. Sometimes it's best to know the circumstances between all involved.

Quote from: Ferality
Thank you, and I agree that something like this would probably turn dirty, which is why I chose to contact you first. Drama or revenge is not what I am after - what has been done has been done, and I only seek to prevent it from happening to other people.

The person is Zaush, and the date of the event this past new years weekend. I had been talking with him via aim (sadly I do not have any logs) and personal cell phone texts/calls. This was also when he had still been in a relationship with his ex-fiance, Keovi. They had both explained to me that they were in a "swinging" relationship when I met them in person at Califur earlier that year (June 5-7, 2009). During the convention he expressed interest in having sex with me, which I declined and let him know I had a boyfriend. He then proceeds to try and convince me to do an art trade with him depicting our characters having sexual relations, to which I told him I wasn't comfortable with. I told them both that I admired their artwork and intended only to be friends with them. They both seemed ok with this.

After the convention Zaush talks to me on AIM and constantly brings up sexual conversations. I eventually tell him I was physically incapable of having penetrative sex, which at the time was a great source of depression for me, in hopes that he would leave me alone . He goes on to insist that I am emotionally broken and my current relationship is the source of my agony. The relationship I was in ended shortly after this exchange, and I sought to spend some time single in order to figure some things out for myself.

I continued to talk to both Zaush and Keovi during this time, and decided to visit them in early October in order to take a look at Keovi's art college, since I was seeking out possible colleges to transfer to (I was nearing the end of my associates degree). During my stay there I was constantly pressured by Zaush into having sex with he and Keovi although I explained to him before I arrived and during my stay that I was not interested. I eventually relented and allowed him to massage me while I was topless. He then proceeded to pull down my shorts every chance he got while he was on top of me. At this point I was too confused and intimidated to tell either of them I was uncomfortable. This event ended in them having sex together in front of me. I left the next day.

I stopped talking to Zaush after this for a while, but eventually resumed contact with him nearing the end of the year. He began insisting that I visit again, stating that it wasn't fair that Keovi slept around when he didn't get to, and that I owed him sex. He called me angrily twice to yell at me about his frustrations that I wasn't comfortable visiting or having sex with him. I became very depressed. He began to explain that he was just trying to act in my best interests, and that he could help me with my sexual dysfunction. He claimed to have helped Shinigamigirl with the same issue.

When he explained that Keovi was going to China to spend new years eve with her father, he again pleaded that I would come down to spend the weekend with him. After being badgered and harassed I gave in and arrived at his house. He called Keovi shortly after I arrived and asked her permission to have sex with me, which I think was also another way to manipulate me. He asked me if I had ever drank before and I said no, then proceeded to tell me that he wouldn't give me any alcohol before he fucked me because he had been accused by a woman of using alcohol to her. This made me very uncomfortable. We were the only ones at his house and I was 3+ hours away from home. I insisted that we use condoms, but he would not. Since he was much larger than me (I am 5'2") I felt like he could become violent if I had chosen to leave at that time. So I stayed had unprotected penetrative sex with him at his house. I spent two nights (December 31st 2009, January 1st 2010) and left in the morning of the third day (January 2nd 2010) because I had work later that same day. He begged me to quit my job and stay with him because he was so lonely. I was glad to have an excuse to leave. I have been testing for all major STDs ever since.

Sorry for being so long-winded. This was my personal encounter. The artists I know of which either he has stated he has done this to, or have stated themselves that he has approached them soliciting sex are: Littlebluewolf, Shinigamigirl, WolfNymph, Vantid, and most recently Rainbowjokerhound (the 18 year old I spoke of). I am concerned for the safety of other female artists because he chooses to prey on smaller females (around 5 feet in height) while he is actively working out and taking protein suppliments, is emotionally manipulative, and becomes verbally violent when resisted.

Thank you for your time,
-Ferality

Quote from: Dragoneer
Okay, yeah... that's... I'll need some time to think this one over. It's definitely a complex issue.

Quote from: Ferality
Thank you for taking the time to think about it. I know Zaush contributes to the site and is definitely fairly popular (which is why I hesitated to say anything about this to anyone) but I'm worried he might do what he did to me, or worse, to someone else. I'm not sure asking you to ban him would do much to help the issue, though. And I am not sure that he directly uses FA to solicit sex from people, so if that's the case I can understand how it might be out of your hands. That's why I wanted to ask your advice, and I do trust your judgment.

If it ends up being the only thing I can do is to continue avoiding him while looking out for other female artists and warning them in private about his tendencies, then that's that. I wont bring this issue public, and I do ask that you notify me before you say anything publicly, or even to Zaush. I'm afraid he might try to harass me (he may still have my phone number and other important information).

Thanks for hearing me out,
-Ferality

-
http://i53.tinypic.com/2enszue.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2niv478.png
^
Zaush's intitial reactions (on twitter) was to deny everything & he posted logs of conversations he allegedly had with Ferality, in order to bolster his position.
-
http://i54.tinypic.com/2vanvc1.jpg
^
Quite quickly after this all came to light, someone left a shout on Zaush's page saying that they told him this would happen if he kept on behaving as he did. They also refer to Zaush's "other secret" (thus far, not brought to light).
-
http://i52.tinypic.com/250m1jp.jpg
^
Littlebluewolf states that Zaush tried the same things he tried on Ferality, on her
-
http://i52.tinypic.com/2pts048.jpg
http://bridgeportcat.livejournal.com/96818.html?thread=707122#t707122
^
A friend of Keovi states that they've known about Zaush's behavior for a long time, also confirms that Zaush' attempted to "agressively sabotage" Littlebluewolf's relationship with her BF
-
http://fifteen10.com/saves/journals/1952230/2010-12-19T04:56:16-05:00.html#cid:16202235
^
Dragoneer posted a (now deleted, but archiveD) journal about FA's data loss disaster and naturally people started asking him about Zaush. He apparantly hadn't read the origal note properly, since he appears to think that Zaush backed off and he says what Zaush did was not rape.
-
http://fifteen10.com/saves/journals/1952576/2010-12-19T15:38:11-05:00.html
^
Dragoneer made a journal about "the Zaush issue", to try and clarify his original comment. He later deleted this journal, but it was archived.

http://fifteen10.com/saves/journals/1952576/2010-12-19T15:38:11-05:00.html#cid:16206614
^
Ferality spoke on the journal about her opinion of Dragoneer and what she was doing now.
-
On a members-only and closed livejournal community, Furrydrama_2, Dragoneer stated in a now deleted thread that his own GF was able to identify Zaush merely from the description of his behaviour and that he had tried to make her have sex with him too (presumably before she entered into a relationship with 'Neer):

Quote from: Dragoneer
I tried to clarify that, but I doubt it will matter at this point. When I told Sciggles of this, I left out names... and she mentioned that Zaush tried to do something like this to even her. But she mentioned when she said no, despite him keeping asking and insisting, he backed off.

So I can't verify it on every instance, but I didn't agree with Zaush and the accusations concerned me. I just didn't want her getting burned.
-
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1966002/
http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,442.msg4108.html#msg4108
^
Zaush posts a journal on FA about all this.

I find it astonishing that Neers GF was able to identify the person as Zaush right away, simply from a description of his behaviour. I didn't notice the boasting about using alcohol to facilitate rape before either. :/

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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2010, 09:09:21 am »
Quote from: Poor Baby Zaush
There exist various screenshots of chat logs, taken by me, of my conversation with said individual. They were highly private, and took valuable time away from my family visit to collect. I had to remote VNC connection into the computer the chatting took place from, then take screenshots of the log viewer window. Though salacious in nature, and from an earlier time in my life, they show that none of my actions were against the will of another. If you still choose to believe otherwise, then I can't account for your thirst for gossip and drama. At worst, you could probably accuse me of being a hopeless flirt, and sexually active. Let me know when those become illegal, or anybody else's business, for that matter.


IT'S HARD OUT THERE FOR A CRAZY LIL' FLIRT LIKE ZAUSH

Zaush you write like a fucking sociopath and I hope you choke on your fey little Citras you fucking monster.
I don't time for shitfucks. Later, fuckshits.

Jim Demintia

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2010, 11:13:51 am »
Really what does it is the unrelenting use of the passive voice when describing a highly personal situation.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2010, 01:57:29 pm »
The arrogance displayed here is incredible. Your comment on twitter to her about needing to have a "serious discussion", followed by voluntary leaking, on your part, of private conversations in attempt to vindicate yourself, is bordering on a smear campaign against the accuser. That's arrogance. What you might have done might not have been illegal but it does make you a bad person. The accuser, I will add, made no effort to conduct such a campaign against you - had the leaks not happened due to third parties, this never would have come to light. And the poster above who insinuated that she might have been involved in the hacking, that's all-together laughable, and a conspiracty theory worthy of the best tinfoil hat. She is totally innocent in ALL of this. I don't recall her ever claiming it was outright 'rape' but it was certainly a form of coercion, and the fact that other women (at least one other, judging by Twitter screencaps) backing up that sort of behavior from you is altogether damning.

You could have admitted that you crossed some sort of line. But maybe you don't really think you did. Maybe you just don't have any empathy at all. I'm not qualified to say so. But I would have a lot more respect for you if you had either admitted to bad behavior, or even done or said nothing at all (as your 'accuser' has admirably done through all of this, much to gain the respect of many). But you took an aggressive campaign to show logs that had no business seeing the light of day. And I don't dispute their authenticity either, but I do dispute how genuine her remarks might have been, especially in stark contrast to what she said to Dragoneer, which was under no pressure or pretense of any action being taken (meaning, it was 100% honest). Sometimes people say things because they think that's what someone else wants to hear, not because it's genuinely what they think.

Comment of the fucking year.  Bravo, good sir.

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 02:08:58 pm »
The sad part is that what he is accused of is pretty much on the level of what Assange is accused of in Sweden. The Swedes have very strong rape laws where you can't even emotionally force someone of the opposite (or same!) sex to have sex with you; it's a form of rape but not as serious as the extremely violent kind (rape then murder) or the type where the attacker uses physical coercion but doesn't involve significant amounts of violence. Regardless, it's still rape because you used a non-physical form of intimidation to force or attempt to force someone to have sex with you.

The ass-kissing in that thread is fucking unbelievable, someday I hope he fucks up and gets caught~ :I

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2010, 05:43:54 pm »
Somewhere someone said that a lot of people close to him believed he could become violent if he didn't get his way. So there was the threat of violence, which is a bit more than just emotional manipulation.

But yes, what constitutes rape is not just defined by the law.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2010, 12:48:15 am »
It literally hurts to read the fucking comments on that journal.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2010, 01:05:24 am »
It literally hurts to read the fucking comments on that journal.

Minnieshoof is the worst fucking thing and I want to give him all the punches forever.
I don't time for shitfucks. Later, fuckshits.

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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2010, 01:08:38 am »
For me, the worst thing by far are the posts of support by female artists. Female artists that could have easily been among his targets.
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Re: so about this Zaush guy
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2010, 01:53:24 am »
For me, the worst thing by far are the posts of support by female artists. Female artists that could have easily been among his targets.

Don't you know that ALL the ladies love the Wan(g)?  BPC is just jealous that he wouldn't put out.

Oh wait most furries are gigantic attention whores who always want free stuff and more than anything want to be acknowledged in a positive manner by the popular people, my bad I forgot.