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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by Folseh on Yesterday at 02:10:21 am »
oddly SoFurry (a site that no one cares for as its now hit backwater levels) have a marketplace, its actually a thing they had running for a long while
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by Conan on May 27, 2017, 03:45:42 pm »
Yeah, Weasyl has such a system.

And even if they didn't, there are external commission process management sites, so the artists just one of those while using FA for promotion, and the band plays on. Nothing will kill FA at this point other than the staff gangraping someone (on video, witnesses or forensic evidence would be disregarded), or IMVU getting bored and shutting it down.

*Speaking* of which, this isn't dramatastic or anything, but this is new and curious. FA is running ads on Twitter. In this case, for FA:U:

Weasyl and FA both have "Commission" systems that are basically glorified price lists. Weasyl at least has the ability to search through them. Neither manage the commission process which is the problem. A system like commiss.io would make more sense on an art site because it streamlines the entire process, right down to posting the art for everyone to see.

FA/Piche has been really going all-out to promote FA:U (more than usual) which makes me wonder if their relocation to Virginia failed to impress anyone and their pre-reg numbers are way down.
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by PleadingTheYiff on May 27, 2017, 07:48:31 am »
Yeah, Weasyl has such a system.

And even if they didn't, there are external commission process management sites, so the artists just one of those while using FA for promotion, and the band plays on. Nothing will kill FA at this point other than the staff gangraping someone (on video, witnesses or forensic evidence would be disregarded), or IMVU getting bored and shutting it down.

*Speaking* of which, this isn't dramatastic or anything, but this is new and curious. FA is running ads on Twitter. In this case, for FA:U:

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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by nopenope on May 27, 2017, 12:33:59 am »
About the only example of furry "commercialization" that exists is IMVU's acquisition of FA.  It's the same poorly run site with different ads.  If there was much commerce to do, they'd be sponsoring cons and competing with other companies to get more.

"Dependence" of furry artists on commissions sounds like a criticism of someone who hasn't made art for money.  Freelance anything or even random minimum wage mcjobs can more or less fill the same role. Drawing sexy animal people isn't some brutal coal mine with a company store though, it's just more fun than boring shit.  People can move on with no money invested, they don't depend on FA so much as they don't give a shit about taking sides.

Piche's poor management includes stuff like nurturing the porn in a way that held everything back from being commercial (payment processor problems) and created the potential for other sites to compete and do better.  Actual commercialization... but that's bad? 

Well, it's easier to attack a clown in charge and his $75 worth of panhandling, than apathy in general.

Speaking of, the altfurry clique and their dogmongling friends have actual paid campaigners for Trump in charge. Do you think Piche will ever have influence like that? They are independent of sites or cons to protect as a base - banning them from cons encourages them do shit like line up a hit list of con hotels to call with complaints about "pedos" as a smear campaign to shut the cons down.

So on one hand, you have a few known shitheads who have to protect established properties and dodge well known dirt.  On the other hand, there's a blob of manipulating parasites attacking from inside, and using furries against themselves like media outsiders did when they caused 20 years of butthurt with a few tabloid stories.  Which is worse again?
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by rodox_video on May 26, 2017, 08:24:54 pm »
I think that, regardless of their actual 'power base', a bunch of fuckheads trying to remake the fandom in their image needs to be slapped a bit harder than Piche buying FA with Afghanistan cash.

Far larger and smarter groups of fuckheads have tried to remake the subculture in their image and it certainly didn't work out for them. "alt-furry" will be no different. "alt-furry" has no big site runners on their side, the one con chair that had anything to do with them rightly got his shit fucked up, and they have no major artists on their side that the subculture feels like it has to tolerate.

The people who don't identify as extreme right but do all the shit they do anyway under a milquetoast liberal cover* are more dangerous. The abusers and rapists are more dangerous. They outnumber "alt-furry" 10 to 1 at the very least.

Hell, even the dogfuckers vastly outnumber "alt-furry", even though their numbers are dropping slowly over time. Foxler himself is a failed dogmongler.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be treated as a threat - they are - but they've got quite a ways to go before they'll be the biggest threat. If they disappeared tomorrow, the hellscape that we've accrued over the last decade will still be there and almost totally unchanged.

*Adam Wan and his ongoing I AM A FUCKING MORONoldry obsession is a good example, but I bet I could find plenty more.
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by Conan on May 26, 2017, 03:29:15 pm »
There's actually some promising movement in artists being able to abandon FA because "That's where the money is." Commiss.io has shown some promising growth and I'm seeing more artists moving their commissioning setup to it.

I've been saying it for years. A commission marketplace and management system is going to be what kills FA. But Weasyl prioritized switching off bbcode to markup before going dormant and Big Dildo/FurryNetwork's commission management tool seems to be stuck in development hell.
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by SaltyFeline on May 26, 2017, 12:18:40 pm »
I understand. It's basically an endless cycle that keeps FA alive, and the dependence on the money is the reason this cycle is even happening in the first place. I noticed the trend of many large businesses within the fandom having some sort of scandal connected to them. I wonder if that is just the nature of the beast.
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by PleadingTheYiff on May 26, 2017, 07:32:14 am »
I think that, regardless of their actual 'power base', a bunch of fuckheads trying to remake the fandom in their image needs to be slapped a bit harder than Piche buying FA with Afghanistan cash.

But, Salty, to give the most direct example to this thread, commercialization is bad because it keeps FA going. Piche/Wan/yak/silver/chase/IMVU/whoever does a bad thing involving FA, people get rightly upset about that. Generally at this time someone less shitty starts up an art site that's much better than FA, and a bunch of decent people go 'I'm going there!'. Then you have a chicken and egg condition. The artists find there's no clientele for their commission work there, and the users then quickly find that there's no artists there, or a small and dwindling number. After months of this, even the most 'socially conscious' of artists goes back to the hulk of FA because, well, that's how they make a living. This is how FA, despite being buggy, behind the times, actively awful in policy and deed, and roundly derided... Still is the undisputed #1 furry site. Furry ain't a hobby anymore for a lot of artists and they need to follow the money.

Extend that to Big Animal Dildo LLC, the extreme Patreon success of Wan and Naylor, various convention scandals... And quickly you find that under every pile of money in the fandom lies some really poor dealings.
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Antisocial Networking / Re: Dragoneer begging for cash to work on FA
« Last post by SaltyFeline on May 26, 2017, 12:10:31 am »
I never really thought much about the economic side of the fandom. Can you explain why you feel the fandom's commercialization is damaging? I always see those dependent on the revenue as people doing a job like anyone else and never thought anything of it beyond that. I've always considered not leaving because of revenue to be an excuse for cowardice and laziness. Being dependent on the income wouldn't be that much of an issue if they left FA slowly and not immediately jump ship. Laziness because nobody wants to take the initiative to be the change the fandom needs. I don't see financial dependence as the thing keeping FA alive, I believe it's people who don't know how to leave properly or know but just can't be assed to do it.
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